Archers thread #150: For whom the sausage rolls: George over a Berrow, Fallon & Harrison seek new lease on life, is it all a Fête Accompli? Discuss The Snivelling Simpletons, sorry, The Archers, here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think people frequently miss their own weddings because of a morning quickie while in a plaster cast, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for title suggestions. I basically took @OverArmour's excellent suggestion and managed to shoehorn in snivelling simpleton, gloriously coined by @Eastie77Returns to refer to Lee in the first instance.

@WitcheryDivine suggested Recharging, Red Kites and The Man They Call Ron, is Ambridge becoming an earthly paradise or a hell on earth? which seems as good a place as any to kick off our discussions! Ron = Rob, a fortuitous typo on a previous thread. It does feel a bit as if we're marking time before he turns up again. Odd to do what could be a high profile storyline over the summer holidays when a lot of people will be away, but depending on your point of view, maybe that's a blessing!

Whither George? Is he shaping up to be Andrew Tate mark 2?

Everybody looking forward to Ferret Fun at the Fête? Me neither.

Over to you!

I’m surprised neither Ed nor Will bundled him outside for a hiding.

Thinking about the last 20 years or so, the younger Grundies (incl Emmer) have delivered some of the most emotionally violent and combative scenes ever, haven't they?
I remember being shocked by the fights, Will with the gun, and I don't remember all the detail of Emma going back and forth but it was awful.

Right: eyes down (ears open?), look in!

... listen in!

It sounded as if Ed definitely wanted to take him outside and teach him a lesson. Will was very calm by comparison, considering he bore the brunt of the insults. Or perhaps stunned into silence by it all.

Well externalised though, you have to admit, what with Emmur being fictional and all.

Seriously, though, she has never had a proper comeuppance for her behaviour with Will and Ed, and neither has she attracted the kind of opprobrium one would expect in a small village where everyone’s business is known. People would, figuratively, have drawn aside the hem of their garments.
She was incontinent, immoral, selfish, dishonest and, above all, exceedingly cruel. Why Clarrie doesn’t hate her guts I cannot fathom.

Will had much of it from George before, on 29th March, so what George thought about his parents didn't come as a complete shock to him. Synopsis for that day says

Will then asks whether George is that embarrassed by them, and walks into the truth as George sees it: it isn't him personally, explains George, it's just what people say. When questioned further, George tells him that it isn't them not having money, it's that Ed isn't just his uncle, he's his step-dad and all, and George's friends poke fun at his whole life, asking if his mum couldn't tell the difference between the brothers, does he know who is his real dad, or if they are a threesome. Will says he should ignore them, he knows what happened; yeah, says George, and even he thinks it's messed up: mum having two kids by two brothers and they're all living on the same farm? Will says he thought George was fine with it, and George wants to know how come Will is fine with it: that's what he doesn't understand. Will tries to explain: for a long time he wasn't, but after a while he came to terms with the fact that he and Emma just weren't meant to be. George mutters that she humiliated Will, and when Will says that he wouldn't say that comes straight back with 'No, you wouldn't. That's how weak she made you.' Will objects that's a bit harsh, and George apologises, and says he knows they are meant to pretend like it's normal, but it really ain't. Of course his mates take the mick: it's weird. Who can blame them?

RegimentalSturgeon
Why Clarrie doesn’t hate her guts I cannot fathom.

Oh, that's easy: she is the only (living) woman who has given Clarrie grandchildren, and as we know, those are the most important thing possible to all grandmothers.

(When Clarrie had a choice, she seemed greatly to prefer Nic.)

Also, we don't hear Clarrie and Emma together very often. They are clearly civil to each other, but I've never got the impression they were close. Clarrie is fundamentally kind and gentle, I can't see her being deliberately vindictive to anyone. She's by no means pally with Emma though.

Clarrie is one of my favourite characters, even though I want her to ditch all the feckless men she's weighed down by. She's too much of a pushover with keeping house for everyone on top of being the only one with a stable job (what does Will do now, apart from bad pottery?), but she is lovely.

I’ve always remembered a scene between Emma and Clarrie back when Nic announced she was pregnant (with Poppy) and Emma was being a cow about it. Clarrie understood exactly what was going on (jealousy) and had a kind but firm conversation with Emma about it, slightly manipulating (in a nice way) Emma into feeling more secure and therefore more compassionate. It’s stuck with me because it was such a clever scene and conveyed a lot about Clarrie’s relationship with Emma and her perspective on how to manage it.

I think Clarrie has just made the best of a bad situation when it comes to Emma. Both her beloved boys are/have been in love with her and she has kept the peace so as not to alienate them. Emma is also her best friend’s daughter and mother to her grandchildren. I think the two grew a bit closer and rallied together to help Will and the kids when Nic died. Emma can be kind. She was lovely to Mia when she started her period.

I don’t think we really know what Clarrie thinks of her daughter in law deep down, but she wouldn’t ever badmouth her and is always supportive. The complete opposite of most MIL threads on MN!

Will does deliveries for Bridge Fresh.

Bit of an anti-climax tonight. No Grundy action! Is George at the bottom of a slurry pit, or drunk in a ditch? That's what I was hoping to find out, but we got non-stop Bridge Farm Archers and the twins' party.

I wonder why they didn’t work it out so that yesterdays’s episode was today.

I also think they could cut out the idea that dying from glioblastoma is an easy death. We’ve had it twice now and it’s not a good look.

Helen’s ED is back isn’t it? Pat asking if she’s had cake - Helen saying she’ll have some later. I think it’s interesting seeing how George’s circumstances have come to have an effect on him while wondering how what’s happening/has happened with Ron will have an effect on Jack and Henry. Henry doesn’t know who his father is, Jack Is not being allowed to know.

I meant - Tony has said it twice now.

Yes I find it odd that "he'll have nurses plumping his pillows" vision of dying from a brain tumour.

But I guess it's an emotional reaction and one's heart does go out to Tony.

There's no closure with an abuser.

It's about Ron the rapist getting away with it without ever being visited with the consequences, while Tony's child will live with it for the rest of her life rather than an assessment of how horrible glioblastoma is. For this reason I don't think it should be censored.

A comparison is the often expressed cheating of punishment when a convicted person kills themselves, e.g. Fred West. On the other hand there was the anger that the Moors Murderers, by virtue of not being dead were somehow doing OK.

It's the impotence, the desire that the bad guy should suffer commensurately, and it's good that the storyline allows this view.

Obviously I understand the finer points of the storyline and (obviously, I’d presume) didn’t think for a moment they were making a specific statement about glioblastoma for the sake of that specifically. But nevertheless - it’s still a tough thing to hear. If he was making those statements about breast cancer I think we’d have something to say about it, for instance.

I’m just expressing how it’s made me feel.

@LillianGish yes I spotted that too. Definitely what I think they were hinting at...

Thursday’s episode was explosive…Friday’s episode was repetitive.

I agree, having lost someone to a brain tumour the last days were not pleasant - although I get Tony’s point. They had hoped to charge Rob with kidnapping. He isn’t being made accountable at all.

Tom and Fallon on the bouncy castle was odd. Get the contract out and sign it in food colouring!

George will perhaps walk off and we’ll have a ‘George is missing’. Chelsea will find him and talk some sense into him.

I thought Tom and Fallon on the bouncy castle was a great opportunity for two of TA’s least likeable characters to knock their heads together.

@OverArmour I understand you, completely. Losing a family member to glioblastoma was absolutely the worst thing he, I, and the rest of my family have ever experienced and it’s weird to hear people on the radio act like it’s a treat.

i understand why Tony feels the way he does, and the perspective of the other poster above, but I have the same reaction as you. I also wish that maybe Tony could convey his feelings about Ron not facing justice in a way which didn’t focus on how nice his death will be (nurses, medication) and maybe more on the frustration and impotence Tony feels.

anyway, flowers to you and I’m sorry for your loss. Just wanted to say I’m with you on finding it hard.

The more I think about George the more fascinated I am, and impressed with the writers. I think it’s actually observing the men around him that have helped formed his opinion on women and relationships. There’s obviously the Emma/Ed/Will thing - he accused Will of being ‘weak’. He clearly thinks Neil lets Hannah walk all over him at work, and presumably he knows as well as we all do that Susan rules the roost at home. I would be really interested to hear what he thinks of Chris and Alice. She embarrassed Chris quite a lot with her drunken behaviour, and then to turn round him and dump him when he’s supported her! And this isn’t about a woman, but he really enjoys manipulating Oliver, and sees him as a silly old man, he told Brad as much. Fascinating!

@TherapistInATabard It sounds very much as if you're blaming the women in George's life for making him the person he is. I'm sure you're not-but that's the way it sounds...