Archers thread #142: Kill Jill? Is Ambridge heading for a Tarantino-style bloodbath on Stir Up Sunday? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that , or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Well, things have taken a turn for the better in the last few days! The SWs have re-discovered their form and the actors and directors have risen to the challenge. I won't say much more than that for fear of jinxing things. Over to you!

(Thanks to @JanglyBeads for the thread title idea!)

It will be interesting to see what the SWs think mental health services are like. I couldn't work out if last night was supposed to be a psychotic break or 'just' a panic attack with some associated delusion inspired by everyone he loves leaving him. In reality (certainly local to me) Ben would probably wait ten hours in A+E then have a cursory chat with the crisis team who decide he's not at risk of suicide and discharge him back to his GP. If he's exceptionally lucky they might refer him for counselling, where he'll have a two month wait for a triage call and then another two month wait for a group 'managing anxiety' course. If he's not so lucky they'll send a letter to his GP (which will take three weeks to arrive) and ask them to refer.

As a student he's probably better off approaching student services, where they seem to have much better resources than the NHS in general.

If he's been seen by a psychiatrist by tomorrow (when presumably we'll hear Ruth or someone else being updated) I'll be cross at the complete lack of awareness or reality on the SWs' behalf. The trouble is that stories like the above don't tend to run well as 'please seek help if you're suffering from mental illness' promotion.

Anyway. Having got that off my chest I too would like to praise Joy. She was excellent last night. I also really felt for David and his complete desperation and out-of-my-depth-ness.

Completely agree with all this, in particular Chelsea shouldn't have to insulate Ben from the consequences of his actions. She was pretty clear that she felt obliged to tell him.

If Ben finds himself wrapped up in a comprehensive package of mental health care I shall spit and know for certain that none of the LSWs have been near to NHS mental health provisioning.

My experience as close relative of somebody bipolar prone to manic episodes from the age of 18 is that they are an urgent priority to the MH team. There is an on call professional who does an assessment and the relevant medication is provided urgently. My relative was admitted the first time for a week while they sorted out the diagnosis but subsequently they stay at home with family. The important bit is getting the ER staff to realise this is psychosis and mania not just anxiety or drugs. That’s where assertive family come in handy! Poor Ben. It was all hauntingly familiar to me.

I find it quite chilling how Chelsea is seemingly unperturbed by her late abortion and all the distress her prevarication caused her mother and Ben.

What makes you think she is unperturbed - the fact that she is trying to get on with life?

She spent a long time angsting about what to do, is not the first woman to underestimate how far along she was. She is doing exactly what her family wanted her to do - trying and get her life back to normal and move forward.

@SaltyCrisp , how do you know she is unperturbed. She (finally) made a decision, and there's not much she can do about it now. She's getting on with her life.

I also think Chelsea is much better supported than Ben - her mum, Jazzer and her brother have all got her back, fully aware that it's been an ordeal for her and none of them queueing up to tell her she's done terrible thing and should be ashamed of herself.

What @LillianGish , said, Chelsea is much better supported. Not one of her immediate family have blamed her or been judgemental.

Ben's mother has been supportive, and Pip and David have tried in their way, but Ben has binned his girlfriend, who would have been supportive, and has had the wrath of Jill and Mince heaped upon him.

for everyone finding Ben's episode has hit a nerve. I do feel for the SWs, to an extent. If they portray the NHS mental health services as we would like to think they are, rather than how they actually are, they could be accused of putting people off from seeking help, but if they attempt to show the reality of our overstretched community mental health teams and GP services they run the risk of being accused of breaching BBC political impartiality guidelines.

My daughter was offered counselling through the NHS three years ago, but she had to go on a waiting list. As it was clear she would be waiting a long time she eventually went private instead, and fortunately it did help. Last month she got a phone call to ask if she still wanted to be on the waiting list. Obviously Covid had an effect, but three years is a ridiculously long time to be waiting for any NHS treatment.

That's appalling @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g . Glad she's had help.

@Prestissimo thank you for sharing your professional experiences.

People may wish to look at the current thread on MH support in schools, although of course that's not Ben's age group.

Ben's parents and Pip are supportive (Josh appears to have moved into the cereal cupboard), but Mince's actions have made Ben feel he needs to keep a low profile at home because he feels guilty about the withdrawal of funds. Probably not a coincidence that his crisis yesterday was linked to the perceived loss of Bess - the one constant and non-judgemental presence in his life. Really feel for him. to all who have experienced this in RL.

Chelsea had the judgement of Vince shouted out in public so that whole village knows she is "that Horrobin girl who got pregnant and had an abortion". A small village in which Jill is unlikely to be the only judgemental bigot.

We've discussed what is involved in a late abortion and whilst I'm relieved the SW aren't focusing on the aftermath of that, I do find it chilling that Chelsea is so unaffected by it. I would have preferred Chelsea and her family to have gone silent for a while. It's painful to listen to Ben's distress - though the acting from him and David was very good last night.

Why should Chelsea go silent? What is the correct response? Should she have gone into punishment purdah for her sinful ways? Be weeping and wailing to so that we all know how truly devastated she should be?

Not everyone wears their heart on their sleeves, and Chelsea doesn't have the luxury of a comfortably off family to back her if she drops out of college. She has to get on with it, she has no alternative.
Ben's reaction seems the odd one out to me, and apparently now that is due to wider mental health issues.

Why should Chelsea go silent? What is the correct response? Should she have gone into punishment purdah for her sinful ways? Be weeping and wailing to so that we all know how truly devastated she should be?

She wasn't sinful, she was careless. But that carelessness had consequences and sometimes it's important to reflect on that. So I would have liked her to reflect on that off air for a while. I'd like a break from the Horrobins and Jazzer.

OK - had Jazzer erroneously believed that Chelsea speaking would have made a critical difference, I don’t think he would have spoken as he did.

@SaltyCrisp we heard Chelsea's distress at the time of the abortion, I think. And it had been signalled before that that her decision was getting harder as time went on, and that she was uncomfortable with the idea of it.

I wonder if, though, once she (finally) made her decision she is at peace with it because it was she who would have been entirely affected by having a baby. Ben is maybe in a privileged position of being able to feel regret because the baby would have been more peripheral to his day-to-day existence. (Also he's had a crappy time with his nearest and dearest in response to this, whereas as mentioned by PPs Chelsea has been more unconditionally supported by hers.)

Maybe we will hear further regret from Chelsea in 10 years time when a much-wanted baby starts kicking at 18wks and she realises what she did as a teenager. Or maybe we won't - maybe she has genuinely been able to compartmentalise her decision as the right one for her, now, at this stage in her life, and regret will not come into it.

But I don't think Ben's state is simply or even bc he might feel the loss of the baby, it's more complex.

She wasn't careless she had a failure of contraception. Ben did absolutely nothing although he plainly hadn't forgotten the act, just walked away with no expectation of any consequences, like men do so often.

She spent weeks worrying about what to do. Just how long should a young woman to be punished for having sex?

We have heard more about and from Ben in the aftermath than Chelsea. Why isn't he supposed to sit in silence and reflect on his behaviour?

Just how long should a young woman to be punished for having sex?

Again. I'm not saying she should be punished. She ran away from home causing a great deal of distress for her mother. She prevaricated about the abortion ... A period of reflection so i don't have to listen to her awful nasally voice would have been appropriate.

I think it is probably experience of "our Rochelle" going through similar.

It could clear up that little mystery

Deffo think we're about to find out a whole lot more about Joy's life, which will be interesting.

I feel very pro Joy after that - it was all a bit triggering tbh.

Re Fat Rosie's costume. I've just seen this on Facebook.

I wonder is that really an ancient German Christmas story or a clever invention by someone with a load of leftover Hallowe'en tat to get rid of?