Archers thread #142: Kill Jill? Is Ambridge heading for a Tarantino-style bloodbath on Stir Up Sunday? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that , or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Well, things have taken a turn for the better in the last few days! The SWs have re-discovered their form and the actors and directors have risen to the challenge. I won't say much more than that for fear of jinxing things. Over to you!

(Thanks to @JanglyBeads for the thread title idea!)

I thought we knew she was retired? I think Mick is lovely.

I think Mick is genuine.

Im a big Leonard fan but I went iff him a bit when he told Pip about Ben it would have been better if he had told Ruth I think Pip is too self centered. Just wish Leonard hadnt said anything the doctors and nurses know so he didnt really have to worry that only he knew. Very disappointed.
Also I wonder if Jazza will say yes to marring Tracy and what really was Ben going on about his only what 16 -17. What would he know about getting spliced surely if he liked Jazzer he would be all for it regardless.

I know Leonard isn't a professional and it wouldn't apply but if you have anything to do with Safeguarding you have to tell clients/ students that you can't promise total confidentiality and will have to tell someone else if you have concerns. He could have asked if Ben had told a doctor or nurse and, having been told that he had, left it at that. Involving the family certainly has the potential for ramping up the drama unnecessarily.

I think Brad is portrayed as a bit nerdy and he had gone and Googled statistics about marriage rather than reacting spontaneously.

I don’t blame Leonard for talking to someone but Pip was a poor choice. It was a huge burden for him to carry and he must have been shocked that Ben had considered suicide. I’ve had similar conversations with students in my pastoral care role and I find that it is necessary to talk it through with someone afterwards or it’s hard to process. I’ve also been the person that someone else comes to to “debrief”. Pip managed to make it all about her, of course, concentrating on how she felt when talking to Ben, as you might expect.

I thought Brad's reaction was badly done. I can imagine him objecting and going away to make a list (because obviously all Maths nerds have undiagnosed ASD, as far as scriptwriters are concerned ), but his actual list was rubbish. It had, what, two items on it? Someone like Brad [is being portrayed] would have made an actual itemised list with proper points, not one googled statistic about divorce rates.

Yes @CaptainMyCaptain I think this will be the joke', only deconstructed on the eve of the wedding, revealing he's actually delighted to welcome Jazzer into the family:

I think Brad is portrayed as a bit nerdy and he had gone and Googled statistics about marriage rather than reacting spontaneously

Yes why exactly did Leonard choose Pip??

Listened again, just gleaned that it was bc Ben specifically said not to tell his parents.

I guess the concept of ensuring someone in a position to help knows when someone tells you they're suicidal should be more widely explained.

Also, to be fair Brad's immediate reaction was "I'm not sure that's a good idea!" even before he googled. There'll be some misguided reason though.

Pip could have asked Ben gently, and not mentioned Leonard.
I fail to understand why they are so shocked that Ben thought about ending it all.

Package on Farming Today this morning about poor state of mental health services for farmers.

I heard it. Didn't think it was particularly good reporting. A GP would not have the time or understanding to discuss issues like the farm having been in the family for generations.

I bit the bullet and went over to 100 posts per page, and I have to say, although it sticks in my craw to admit it, it's entirely resolved the problem with the page lage and crashing on these very long threads (so far, anyway). Ah well.

Same here. Very annoying as I do dislike the pages 🙄

Yes. Lag, of course. No idea what lage is.

So do I fail to understand it!

TheSilveryPussycat is absolutely right that there has been no mention of the difference between suicidal ideation and suicidal intention; that's because there was no mention of either. What we have been told is that on a single occasion someone under pressure, having that evening been very publicly attacked, lied about repeatedly, and shamed, for a short time considered killing himself but decided not to. I'd suggest that his reaction was normal; most adolescents who are not mind-shatteringly self-satisfied almost certainly think about suicide occasionally ("I'll kill myself and then you'll be sorry!"), and even work out how they would go about it, without it being a serious intention and without their relations and acquaintances being shocked and horrified and near-tearful and all the rest of what was going on with Leonard and Pip.

I am really surprised that it wasn’t their first concern - even if you know nothing about psychosis surely your first fear is they might harm themselves?

I really want to hear the conversations between Vince and Elizabeth.

I get the Bess going missing thing.
Not in anyway the same as 'Ben', but when a LTR broke up badly, I did contemplate ending it all - I felt so wretched - but one of the things that helped was that I had DPet to think of. DPet still needed me, DPet didn't judge me or leave me other than judge me for not providing the right petfood

If my sibling or child had gone through what Ben had gone through, I'd be on high alert to the possibility of ending it all, but the Dopeys don't seem to think anything beyond themselves.

But I think it was more than that, @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime, as subsequent events showed.

I find this story really interesting. Was aghast at Pip not being able to find a way of digging into her own brother's feelings without dropping leonard in it though. I don't really blame him for telling her, I think too much secrecy can't help with this.

She could have probed gently and got him to tell her, not drop Leonard in it, potentially causing Ben to feel he can't trust him.
She had to make it to be all about her.

She could have done, if she had the skillset.

However in real life, many people myself included, do not know how to navigate this kind of thing when presented out of the blue with a lived one involved. So we do the best we can, and over time hopefully get better.

Pip is a real woman (well obviously not but you know what I mean), who doesn't have a job needing brilliant social skills. She did her best. And she has tried to persuade Ben to talk to his/their parents.

I would certainly have done as @WhoppingBigBackside said but I have had a career working with people. A farmer might expect things to be much more straightforward and not have the patience or subtlety to do this.

I don't think that's true, @CaptainMyCaptain , many farmers are only too aware of MH issues. Most farmers, however, aren't provided with a job, a home and free childcare, or have parents who think the sun shines out of their arses.

This is a good point, most farming families I know are pretty straight talking. She is more used to hassling a cow through a gate than digging for a confidence from another human.

She could probably have done it if she'd really tried though.

Unfortunately having several friends and relations with MH problems has given me some practice at this sort of thing - and tbh being upfront e.g. "have you been thinking about self-harming again?" if delivered in a sensitive tone/context is probably more useful than "how are you feeling?" Many with MH crises seem to worry about upsetting or shocking people if they respond to an anodyne query with how they're REALLY feeling or what they've been doing.