🐠 Archers thread #135: An Everyday Story of Fishy Folk. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you would be delighted to be given a goldfish named after your ex, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Apologies for ignoring the various title suggestions on the last thread. However, here they are, plus a couple of other pithy observations, to kickstart the new thread. I think it's fair to say nobody is looking on this as a Golden Era! Goldfish Era, though ...

@Roysnewshirt: Everyone wants more! Chris wants more Amy; Jazzer wants more Tracey; Alice wants more time with Martha and Amy wants more space… Very true. And now we know Kirsty wants more farming expertise in the rewilding project, but not Pip (thank the lord) so does that mean approaching Adam? Currently under-employed.

@LillianGish: I tune in to hear birdsong and bleating in the English countryside not hammy acting and suggestive grunting.

@stilldumdedumming: Archers is good at the dynamics of family, farming, what it means to have your job, your home and your inheritance so closely aligned etc etc not this nonsense!

@DoctorTwo: Like fuck would Pheobe buy her parents a goldfish each. The Ambridge character transplant fairy has been working overtime this past few weeks, it's been absolutely fucking appalling bar a couple of exceptions.

Can't disagree with any of that. I want to hear more about the pigs and any other effects of Brexit. A topical insert about the war in Ukraine must surely be on the way.

Any happy listeners out there? Any disgruntled listeners with even more grumbles? Over to you!

Roy’s reference to paying living expenses surely couldn’t have included tuition fees which are about £9k a year for U.K. undergrads I think? I’m middle aged so uni was thankfully free when I attended but I recall my niece graduated with about £40k in loans after a 3 year degree not long ago. Mind boggling.

I had no idea Pat and Cathy were even friends and I certainly can’t picture them on a Thelma and Louise road trip together.They are both so…dull. It doesn’t help that Cathy sounds exactly like Shula to me.

Shula's a bit posher-sounding. No I don't recall the road trip idea although I suppose the concept of them having dreamt about it is credible.

So the question is only how many more times we'll hear from Kathy before she goes, if at all.

They gave all the back story to put newcomers in the picture but - as for long-standing listeners - it just felt like P and K were raking over old ground for the sake of it. This is how so much of TA sounds to me at the moment. I don't really understand why they needed to revoice Kathy if she's going to leave. She was inexplicably silent and not even mentioned in passing throughout the Knob years yet we are supposed to believe she and Pat have had an uninterrupted friendship so close that Pat might be tempted to drop everything and drive across America with her. The entire pantomime of shutting down GG with Kathy suddenly placed centre stage is utterly unbelievable and practically unlistenable.

I hesitate to write this, but did Roy say he thought Abbie might go to university?

The reintroduction of Kathy is as pointless as the reintroduction of Mike Tucker.

Yes. Are you getting Abbie mixed up with Bethany though @TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat? Bethany, who has Down’s, is Roy’s half sister, daughter of Vicky and Mike. Abbie is Roy’s daughter with Hayley and has no learning difficulties as far as we know. Both live in the Birmingham area. Beth is younger than Abbie. Abbie is probably 12-13 now I think.

I was annoyed at the suggestion that Roy and Hayley might be in disagreement about him being a conscientious father. But then he never mentions spending time with Abbie either, when IRL he probably would see her every couple of weeks and for a longer period in the holidays.

Yes. Are you getting Abbie mixed up with Bethany though @TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat? Bethany, who has Down’s, is Roy’s half sister, daughter of Vicky and Mike. Abbie is Roy’s daughter with Hayley and has no learning difficulties as far as we know. Both live in the Birmingham area. Beth is younger than Abbie. Abbie is probably 12-13 now I think.

I was annoyed at the suggestion that Roy and Hayley might be in disagreement about him being a conscientious father. But then he never mentions spending time with Abbie either, when IRL he probably would see her every couple of weeks and for a longer period in the holidays.

I do agree it's annoying to see clunky and contrived filling in, but as a comparatively recent listener it can be quite helpful, so I find it forgivable.

I don't begrudge Kathy a last hurrah though that road trip chat was utter hocum. I could have done without that!

I seem to recall Roy mentioning that Abbie had visited over the Christmas when Philip was arrested and Kirstie sought refuge at Willow Farm. Kirstie was worried that her own sudden tragic appearance might have spoilt the Tucker merrymaking but he was adamant that It Was All Fine.

But yes, they probably could give more impression of his life being somewhat built around shared responsibility for her.

12 - 13?! Gosh, I still think of Abbie as not much older than a toddler. How time flies.

Unless the Aldridges chipped in, I can't see how anybody could have paid Phoebe's tuition fees upfront. I took it that Roy had helped her out financially while she was at Oxford, given that it's very difficult to combine a part-time job with the very heavy workload and 8-week terms.

Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert has always said most people would be much better off taking the loan for tuition fees, and probably the maintenance loan too, given that you only pay back when you're earning above a certain amount, and the balance is written off once the borrower is about 50. I have a feeling there have been some recent changes to this, but they wouldn't affect Phoebe.

An ex-colleague of mine and spouse paid their son's first year tuition fees upfront, as well as paying all his living expenses, so he could graduate debt-free. Unfortunately, the lad had a wonderful time but neglected to do much studying, so failed his first year exams at the first attempt, and then went on to fail the re-takes. His parents were apoplectic. His mother apparently accused him of stealing the money. They would all have been better off if he'd taken the loans instead.

Living costs at Oxford can be relatively cheap, because a lot of the colleges are able to subsidise meals etc. But it would make more sense for Phoebe to have had a student loan.

I'm mystified by the redundancy payouts anyway. Apparently Roy is going to be left on his uppers, whereas Ian gets enough to enable him and Adam not only to cover the cost of living (with which they were previously struggling when both of them were earning decent money) but also to pay for the catering van, or alternatively to save Home Farm from Chris. WTF?

My bad! Brain confused by similar sounding ends to names

I get really annoyed at the misconception that tuition fees mean students will end up “saddled with debt”. Families/prospective students who don’t understand that it doesn’t have to be paid until it is affordable to do so (ie when earnings go over a certain level) are put off going to university through unjustified fear of being crippled by it.

@Luculentus I think Roy will get less due to having left and come back so his service is much shorter than Ian’s. But yes, the payouts are like that extra bedroom in Blossom Hill cottage- expand and contract to fit plot requirements!

Roy might have worked at Grey Gables since he was a young lad, but he swanned off to Lower Loxley and had a disastrous affair with Elizabeth and only rejoined the team about 5 or 6 years ago). Ian has to have been at GG for about 20 years. It would probably have been cheaper to leave Ian on a retainer for 9-12 months (if he was any good at cooking).

It would probably have made more sense to offer the weird non-job Kathy was offered to Ian.

It would probably have made more sense to offer the weird non-job Kathy was offered to Ian.

Except that having heard Ian in the kitchen a few times recently I'm not sure he has the people skills required...

I'm really struggling to imagine what this role involves.

Charlotte Higgins again. Guardian.

How on earth does Oliver think he can still be friends with the staff?

But we didn't read it there first, Charlotte Higgins, we read it first here

I think most prospective students understand that they do not have to repay the loan until they earn over the threshold amount. I’m not sure that is when it is ‘affordable to do so’ as the threshold changes every April. The loans are written off after a certain point but depending on when you took the loan out this might be when you are 65 or after 30 years. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for some young people to conclude that avoiding decades of debt might be a sensible option if they can get on the job training and a a qualification whilst they work instead of going to university.

My! Kathy really is the name on everyone’s lips this week. We’re all losing our jobs but let’s make a Memory Book for someone who hasn’t spoken for six years. Ffs…

I was half amused, half horrified by the scriptwriters having Kathy say they could be “like Thelma and Louise”. Thelma was raped in the film! (Which precipitated Louise committing murder and the two of them then committing suicide). And she was fleeing an abusive husband. Either Kathy has forgotten her own rape or she has never actually seen the film, just the posters.

And as for Pat “ooh a bit like Nomadland”- the whole point of Nomadland was to highlight the plight of older people forced to live in vans and drive around the US picking up casual work because their pensions would not stretch to a comfortable retirement. It’s not about jolly retirees on road trips. You’d think that socially-conscious Pat would have understood that.

Just caught up. Roy said to Jolene and Tracy: Kathy might want to move nearer to her son, Jamie, in Hereford.

Hello? Jolene is Jamie's stepmother from the time she was married to Jamie's Dad, Sid. Tracy has lived in or very near the village all her life. She's worked with Kathy for a while now. She won't need it spelled out who Jamie is!

CLUNKY.

Still, I admit to rather enjoying hearing Adil putting Roy in his place, and Tracy telling Oliver what she thinks of him. Perhaps he will die very soon of a broken heart and leave Grange Farm to the Grundys. Ludicrous outcome, but no more than the idea that he would lodge there with them even though he owns the house.