🐠 Archers thread #135: An Everyday Story of Fishy Folk. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you would be delighted to be given a goldfish named after your ex, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: //www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Apologies for ignoring the various title suggestions on the last thread. However, here they are, plus a couple of other pithy observations, to kickstart the new thread. I think it's fair to say nobody is looking on this as a Golden Era! Goldfish Era, though ...

@Roysnewshirt: Everyone wants more! Chris wants more Amy; Jazzer wants more Tracey; Alice wants more time with Martha and Amy wants more space… Very true. And now we know Kirsty wants more farming expertise in the rewilding project, but not Pip (thank the lord) so does that mean approaching Adam? Currently under-employed.

@LillianGish: I tune in to hear birdsong and bleating in the English countryside not hammy acting and suggestive grunting.

@stilldumdedumming: Archers is good at the dynamics of family, farming, what it means to have your job, your home and your inheritance so closely aligned etc etc not this nonsense!

@DoctorTwo: Like fuck would Pheobe buy her parents a goldfish each. The Ambridge character transplant fairy has been working overtime this past few weeks, it's been absolutely fucking appalling bar a couple of exceptions.

Can't disagree with any of that. I want to hear more about the pigs and any other effects of Brexit. A topical insert about the war in Ukraine must surely be on the way.

Any happy listeners out there? Any disgruntled listeners with even more grumbles? Over to you!

[JanglyBeads]

Thanks @trotters!

[TottersBlankly]

JanglyBeads you may want to make your way to the new thread …

[JanglyBeads]

Just tell us what the flippin wrong ingredient was Fallon!!!!

[KimikosNightmare]

but it does feel as though we go months without hearing from people instead of the usual occasional drop-ins

It's particularly odd at the moment-there are characters directly affected by the current storylines who are completely AWOL.

[JanglyBeads]

I've never heard Wonderwall since without thinking of that funeral 😢

[Prestissimo]

Thanks for the new thread @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - great title.

Kathy used to be an interesting character and she had a lot of good storylines. Her rape (and its aftermath) was particularly movingly done, I remember and as @Totters says, interesting how supportive Sid was of her during that stage.

My main impression of her now is how old she sounds. I suppose other actors age gradually but because we haven't heard her for so long it sounds very jarring to me. Also I think she sounds like Usha, which she never used to.

Listening through force of habit here I think. And eternal optimism that something might improve. I'm enjoying Tracey and Jazzer currently but otherwise agree we are really suffering from limited actors at present. I know they've always been limited to a number per week but it does feel as though we go months without hearing from people instead of the usual occasional drop-ins. And poor writing...

Actually I quite like Stella. But I'm bewildered by her being Natalie from EE - that's not how she looks at all in my mind so that's weird too!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

New thread here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4544399-archers-thread-136-howzat-olivers-bowled-a-googly-kathys-out-grey-gables-left-with-nightwatchman-tracy-knocked-for-six-is-ambridge-on-a-sticky-wicket-discuss-the-archers-here

[WhoppingBigBackside]

I don't know why they call him Ardil. The Adils/Adels I know call thenselves Addle, Addil or Addul, and the name doesn't sound like Ardil in arabic

Kathy isn't a Cathy. just like Lynda isn't a Linda or Jill Gill

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Posted this on the Spoilers thread by accident:

I would have liked the episode to have finished by hearing the ghosts - clips of various GG bits down the years.

[WhoppingBigBackside]

I don't remember the Wonderwall bit. I remember not being moved by John's death as it was known that the actor wanted to move on to bigger and better things

I wept along with my beloved Shula when Mark died, although it was fairly well known that the actor as moving on

Wasn't a listener when P.Margaret visited

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Poor Tony. I remember being very taken aback by the long bit of Wonderwall they played at John's funeral. I don't recall hearing such a long passage of music in the foreground before or since.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Oh yes, I'd blanked out the royal visit! William Smethurst's reign. After he left, we had much more earnest stuff a lot more of the time.

Another key location in the 80s was Nelson's winebar in Borchester. I still miss Nelson.

[CaptainMyCaptain]

Oh God, now I'm remembering that harrowing fade-out when Tony found John under the tractor 😢

I was driving when I heard that and I think I shouted out loud. It was, indeed, harrowing - the silence was more moving than any music.

[ElegantPuma]

We must be around the same age @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g as I too, definitely remember GG being a Big Deal in the 80s. There was all that tedious bowing and scraping when Princess Margaret came to stay and the Garden Suite was renamed the Royal Garden Suite. My first encounter with the Doom Music was when Jack fell off the (conservatory?) roof. I thought he might be my first Archers death, but a more experienced listened told me that if Jack had died then there would have been silence. Oh God, now I'm remembering that harrowing fade-out when Tony found John under the tractor 😢

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Yes, that's a good point, Lilian. 40 years or so ago when I was first listening, there was quite a lot of focus on Grey Gables and I must have enjoyed it or I wouldn't have become addicted. Jack Woolley and his dog Captain, whose statue is probably on its way into a skip, if Peggy hasn't managed to get hold of it; the testy and temperamental head chef Jean-Paul; Caroline keeping everything ticking over in between her various disastrous relationships; Peggy interfering and then taking against Caroline (understandably) after her brief affair with Brian; Nigel trying to sell Jack an outdoor swimming pool, and succeeding, I think - I have a dim memory of a comedy storyline about filling the pool up and people falling in; the regular bookings for the Tommy Croker quartet or whatever it was, for dinner dances. There was a lighter touch with the comedy SLs back then, or maybe I was just a bit less critical.

New thread on the horizon, folks. Possibly later today.

[LillianGish]

They're making more of a meal out of this than they did Jenny and Brian leaving Home Farm which was much more significant IMO - my fear is that GG is going to go the same way as Home Farm and will disappear off the map of Ambridge completely never to be mentioned again (unless it is dusted down and hauled out of the cupboard years later and we all have to sit through weeks of explanation much as we have since Kathy was resuscitated). I'm finding TA pretty much unlistenable at the moment. It feels like a very poor, clunky radio drama and not the peep hole into the world of a English village that I used to love so much.

[TottersBlankly]

All this talk of Caroline …

She would never have closed the place down with no warning or consultation period.

The leaving party was dire - but perhaps that’s quite true to life!

[Prestissimo]

Another one completely underwhelmed by the closure of GG here. Having listened to the Archers basically all my life maybe I should have some emotional connection to it (and certainly the SWs seem to think I should) and yet I'm a bit meh about it. Grey Gables has always been quite peripheral to Ambridge in my mind. They're making more of a meal out of this than they did Jenny and Brian leaving Home Farm which was much more significant IMO.

[Luculentus]

Yes but Advil or whatever his name is appears to be assessing each employee individually. There's nothing being suggested to me that they are doing anything wrong.

As I said, the issue is whether they open themselves up to the possibility of claims, not necessarily meritorious claims. Something that relies on Oliver's perception of who has been doing well and what he has chosen to enter into employment records is going to be iffy, and Ardil having a look at those records can't change that. People will always argue about what does or does not merit a bonus unless clear and, ideally, measurable criteria are set. Normally that involves increasing business and improving profits, and we're being told that just wasn't happening at GG. We've heard nothing about bonuses for Kirsty, Kathy, Freddie, or Lynda, let alone any other staff members.

[BorsetshireBanality]

I was going to ask if Cathy was married to Kenton at one point as Jolene talked about “..,stole your husband” to Cathy, but then I remembered that Jolene stole Sid off Cathy too (the soap in the shower scene!!)

The intern must have found the old card indexes!

[KimikosNightmare]

@Luculentus

The problem, though, is not just who has a valid claim but whether you open yourself up to the risk of weaker claims. For instance, if there is a disproportionate number of men getting bonuses compared to women, or vice versa. Initially at least, it didn't sound like they were operating any sort of criteria other than people Oliver vouched for - and he wanted to give Tracy a bonus not because she deserved it but because he felt bad for her, which isn't really the sort of reasoning that would stand up in a tribunal. Even once Adil had actually had a look at employment records all that seemed to add to the criteria was "we won't give bonuses where their bloopers have found their way into their file".

Yes but Advil or whatever his name is appears to be assessing each employee individually. There's nothing being suggested to me that they are doing anything wrong.

It's perfectly OK to pay spot bonuses for one-off exceptional performance even in an ongoing employment situation.

[Luculentus]

@KimikosNightmare

It was maudlin and tedious. And fgs, Kathy is going on an extended holiday- not emigrating.

And on the continuing subject of weird absences from current events- why has Lynda been silent? She was almost killed in GG.

Didn't the Kathy actor say something to the effect that she'd been told she'd get a proper send-off, i.e. she wouldn't just stay permanently silent in the background. I guess today's episode was the actor's send-off as much as the character's.

[Luculentus]

@KimikosNightmare

It would only be discriminatory if there was discrimination. If Ian gets a discretionary bonus and Kathy didn't, that would be, but not giving Tracey one isn't.

The problem, though, is not just who has a valid claim but whether you open yourself up to the risk of weaker claims. For instance, if there is a disproportionate number of men getting bonuses compared to women, or vice versa. Initially at least, it didn't sound like they were operating any sort of criteria other than people Oliver vouched for - and he wanted to give Tracy a bonus not because she deserved it but because he felt bad for her, which isn't really the sort of reasoning that would stand up in a tribunal. Even once Adil had actually had a look at employment records all that seemed to add to the criteria was "we won't give bonuses where their bloopers have found their way into their file".

[KimikosNightmare]

@BlueBlueCowWondering

I suspect Thursday's episode was supposedly to be end-of-an-era moving but I just found it dull

It was maudlin and tedious. And fgs, Kathy is going on an extended holiday- not emigrating.

And on the continuing subject of weird absences from current events- why has Lynda been silent? She was almost killed in GG.

[KimikosNightmare]

@Luculentus

Isn't it dodgy employment practice to decide to give bonuses to a favoured few redundant employees? Surely it's a hostage to fortune unless you can show a completely open, clear selection process so that there is no possible hint of any type of discrimination.

It would only be discriminatory if there was discrimination. If Ian gets a discretionary bonus and Kathy didn't, that would be, but not giving Tracey one isn't.