The Archers #110: Game(keeping)'s up for Will. Game on for Lillian & Vince, Tracy & Oliver? Game over for Joe? Stay ahead of the game with all things Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to LillianGish for the title idea. Very tempted to go with MrsGrindah's suggestion of It’s all a bit crap and boring at the moment but let's be positive, maybe things will look up in the coming days ... Also very taken with Lexi's Midnight Runners - Burpers, maybe? - from Madcats.

Not at all happy about Lily not going to university. Yet another bright Ambridge woman not fulfilling her potential. Why do they do this?

On the whole I liked the Grundy scenes and Ruari and Elizabeth were great. My one adverse comment would be that they had Eddie using the words ‘slipped away’ and, despite knowing this death was coming, for a split second I was confused as ‘slipping away’ is a euphemism associated with death and I wondered what exactly was being said.

He was definitely curmudgeonly and could be a bit of a chancer, but he was an amazing character. Kind and supportive to so many people and loved his family so much, including Nic, as well as his animals. So many touching and beautifully written scenes were played with Joe. I felt like he was very real and even though I know about the actor and that the death had to come up, I feel so sad and like i’ll miss him.

I didn't like the character particularly but his passing is still sad. I think that is when TA is at its best when you care about the characters even when you dont like them. It is quite a skill in writing I think.

He was a great character, funny and such a chancer, and well acted. He’s not someone I’d warm to IRL but then there aren’t many characters in TA that I actually like!

For anyone who missed it, here’s the thread where we talked about Edward Kelsey’s death:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3555897--102-Fatted-calf-is-off-the-menu-will-the-Easter-Bunny-save-Lower-Loxleys-bacon-or-will-there-be-egg-on-Russs-face-Will-Toms-sausage-business-get-the-chop-Join-us-here-to-discuss-The-Archers

And a BOOP for GabrielleNelson for providing the SWs with such an excellent exit for Joe.

(Perhaps I’ll go back to my thread anniversary name in honour of him ...)

I never felt the least need for soliloquy over the body of either of my parents.

To be fair, AskingQuestionsAllTheTime, you probably weren't taking part in a FOTW documentary at the time.

I've got no problem with the writing of Joe's death. I didn't cry though. Mind you, I'm still waiting for the grief to kick in over my mum's death, back in April. I think I've just had to deal with so much crap since my cancer was diagnosed 7 years ago, I've become numb.

I liked Will's "We'll have to ask Grandad", because that's what it actually is like at the start, so it felt very natural.

I also liked that Joe was able to enjoy his last night, with loving friends and family around him, and enjoying a drop or two of the last of last year's cider. It seemed a fitting end.

I found aspects of Eddie's speaking to his father unconvincing, but I suppose radio makes these demands on the suspension of disbelief, in the cause of noting the death of a longstanding character. Rather like the way everyone on TA greets others by name all the time, unlike in RL. I know it's for new listeners, but it grates at times.

I don't really see how you can criticise the writing or action of Eddie's response to Joe's death, because everyone reacts to death differently, and of course reactions also depend on the person dying. I doubt that I would respond that way to the death of my parents, but then my relationship with them isn't anything like Eddie's relationship with his father.

It was mawkish shite.
Great. Joe Grundy is dead and not before time - quite the reverse. Having Eddie of all people - eloquent only when there is quid in it for him, normally - solilioquising was painfully embarrassing. The actor isn't up to it, had it even been believable. Which it wasn't.

Oh, and Clarrie still mithering on at William: the family's emotional blackmail has rendered him unemployed already, what more does she want? Him not to go to look at open courses of water, apparently. Stupid woman.

I don't really see how you can criticise the writing or action of Eddie's response to Joe's death, because everyone reacts to death differently, and of course reactions also depend on the person dying

Well we can, because TA is art not RL, and if it doesn't convince artistically, then it doesn't. It's not about how I would talk over a dead body, but whether it fits character/situation of the genre. Of course there are aspects of RL that obtrude in TA, but they are about factual matters such as the law/agriculture/Brexit.

My dad died not long ago and it brought some of it back, so some extra tears were shed here, but I thought it was beautifully done. Especially Eddie saying "Oh dad!" which was exactly my reaction when I saw my dad just after he had slipped away, it seemed very natural. And also the wanting to sit with him quietly for a while. I was also thinking about the actors having lost their friend and colleague IRL.

And it wasn't a soliloquy, it was a one-sided conversation Eddie was having with his dad.

I got a bit bored listening to Eddie, I started to worry there’d be a full 12 minutes of it.

I have a tradition of listening to the previous night's episode while putting on my make up. That didn't go well this morning. 😭😭😭😭 I found that really moving. I guess echoes of real life losses play a part.

And someone being a bit of a git doesn't make you miss them or mourn their passing any less. In my experience the more complicated the relationship the more painful the grieving.

@LizziesTwin same here

I found Eddie‘a chat very moving, it reminded me very much of the internal conversations I had with my parents after they died. Of course Eddie had to say it out loud, otherwise we wouldn’t hear, so it was a bit unnatural, putting feelings in to sentences. Everyone surely regrets missed opportunities and missed futures when someone dies as well as grief. I think the urge to try and get on with things the next day was also realistic. I think some of you have either got hearts of stone or you haven’t lost an elderly or very ill parent. I suspect this was written by someone who has.

I never felt the least need for soliloquy over the body of either of my parents. Did you not, at the very least, ponder at the exact nature and timing of their going? A soliloquy is a dramatic device to share with with the audience what is going on in the person's head, rather than a literal statement that the person stood there and gave a speech.

Rather like the way everyone on TA greets others by name all the time, unlike in RL. I know it's for new listeners ... not just new listeners! - now that so many of the men sound the same.

A soliloquy is a dramatic device to share with with the audience what is going on in the person's head, rather than a literal statement that the person stood there and gave a speech

This.

One of the things Eddie said to Joe, struck a chord with me, because I said a similar thing to my mum, after my dad had died.

I'd always known my parents loved me, and vice versa, but we never really said it. A few days before dad died (suddenly, and unexpectedly), I'd spoken on the phone to him, and when saying goodbye, I had a strong urge to tell him I loved him, but I didn't.

I'd always told my children I loved them, but after dad's death, mum and I also told each other, just a "Love you" when saying goodbye. We also said all those things that you wish you'd said when someone dies. I'm sure that helped when mum went, because I didn't have any regrets about things not said.

So, Eddie talking about wishing they'd had a few hugs and kisses, rang true to me.

Yes Motoko I also think that older people on their own really NEED a hug , I know my dm does and we do hug, I do say 'love you' on the phone to her but she has said that, no one ,in families, used to say that when she was younger, it's a generation thing.

Apologies if this has been already mentioned but Radio 4 Extra has Wilkie Collins 'No Name' as the 3pm play (started Tuesday 8th Oct). It has one of its main characters played by Jack May - the one and only Nelson Gabriel. I'm enjoying hearing his voice again.

I've been wondering what purpose "Joy" serves in the current Ambridge malarkey.

I assumed it was a warning shot across Ruth's bow to sort her NE accent out or at least realise it does not require her to speak through permanently clenched teeth.