The Archers #93: The Flower and Produce show - who's going to get their just desserts. Freddie? Ellis? Russ? Pass judgement here.

[DadDadDad]

No, that's not a jokey exaggeration, this is really the 93rd thread in a series started by PseudoBadger five years ago! In fact, post number 90,000 in the "official" count will be made on this thread.

Lovers of The Archers welcome (along with the rest of us who have a more complicated relationship with the "TA" ).

One rule we try to stick to: No mentioning of future episode plotlines published in the Radio Times etc. However, once an episode has aired, say what you like!

What is going to happen to Freddie? And are we ever going to hear from Lily again?
I also am wondering what it will take for Kenton to apologise to Fallon...

Last night’s episode appeared to be a vehicle to set up LL going into freefall while Elizabeth’s eye is off the ball and to remind us all that no one but Peggy knows Chris was conned out of all her money. No doubt Peggy will bail her out, but however much it costs her and whatever financial difficulties she appears to find herself in as a result somehow she will always have enough money to step in for the next Archer who needs bailing out. All in all rather unsatisfactory after a good week.

I’m just finding it all quite depressing at the moment. As if there isn’t enough awfulness in real life at the moment

It also seems as if Adam and Ian have forgotten that having a baby was the most important thing in the world 5 minutes ago. It's mid October and no mention of Lexi.

I also found the scene with Elizabeth and Bert very odd. Does Bert work at LL? If not why did he suddenly appear in Elizabeth's office? I wasn't aware the two characters had anything to do with each other. And how come he knows how Geraldine is feeling??

Bert is a volunteer guide I think. I agree it was clumsy.

Oooh Dresses you must have missed a whole chunk of fun episodes a few years ago! Yes, Bert is a volunteer guide at LL and has often had to be reined in from subjecting visitors to interminable hours of his rural poetry. (When he first got the job there was a lot of comedy grumbling from Joe - who naturally felt he held the honorary position of Keeper of Ambridge Heritage.)

I'm actually pleased to have this story revivified - it had been rather neglected lately. (Like the Treetop Walk ...) And actually, it's good that they've remembered that Bert has had a lifelong relationship with the Brookfield 'children' (Shula, Jenton, David and Elizabeth) as he worked there forever. So it's natural he would feel a grandfatherly concern over her current ill-fortune. Who knows - he might find a way to rescue LL!

I’ve always considered his relationship to be more with David and Ruth and their children - especially Pip - indeed that thought flashed through my mind whenever he started talking to Elizabeth.

Ah, you see for me Bert's primary relationship was with Phil (not that I remember it at all clearly) - so the 'offspring' are all his pseudo-children!

Right, there'll have to be an Ambridge pregnancy now to tie in with the new royal pregnancy.

Hope the SWs already have a plan.

Thanks for explaining. Gosh I feel like such a newbie - I've only been listening for 8 years!

Bert lives on Brookfield land . He has volunteered at Lower Loxley for a long time (not sure how long). No reason why he shouldn't know that Geraldine is under too much pressure.

Elizabeth is making a big mistake in that she's forgetting that Freddie is 18 and has to be allowed to live his own life, he made it clear he doesn't want her help. She doesn't own him.

ppeat, agree that parents must let children live their own lives, make their own mistakes, etc. But when they demonstrate that they are catastrophically incapable of making good decisions, very hard not to step in to try and mitigate catastrophic consequences! Elizabeth thinks Freddie is suicide risk, perhaps? who wouldn't try and soften the blow for their offspring in that circumstance? Agree she's barking up the wrong tree. But Freddie is so ashamed and distressed now that he can't bear to see his mother. Ugh, awful. And where the hell is Lily? Can't believe she'd just vanish off the face of the earth like this. Russ can't have turned into a prison guard quite yet. And I can't believe Lily would have such a personality transplant as to put up with it if he'd tried to pull that crap.

You’re right of course Quater re Bert. I’m thinking of him moving to the bungalow when David and Ruth moved out, but of course he was on the farm before that. I don’t really have a memory of him being there when Elizabeth was growing up, but that could just be my memory. What year did Bert actually arrive (sits back and waits for a thread archivist to enlighten me).

Peartree I know what you mean but there's a fine line between helping and pushing him over the edge.

He did sound like he's keeping his head down and coping with the 'institution' (he hadn't been hit again) if he's moved he'll have to go back to the beginning, which could be worse.

That should be an archivist on the thread as a thread archivist would probably be the threadfather himself DDD.

Didn't Bert arrive after the death of Uncle Tom and Walter? I don't remember exactly ("ooah me beauty") That really does take me back (wipes away a tear).

I was watching yet another repeat of Vicar of Dibley and I wondered if Bert's actor was one of the villagers in the Easter Bunny episode!

I don't think the reason Freddie doesn't want to see his mother is that he's ashamed. To me it's fairly clear that he is trying his damnedest to keep his head down and stay as under the radar as it is possible for a boy like him. Having Mummy talking loudly in posh accent and clearly not having the first clue about what life in prison is like will make things a whole lot worse for him; everything is overheard in visit halls. She should dial it RIGHT down and start by asking Freddie if there is anything she can do to be helpful. She needs to take her cues from him.

As regards Lily - I have a feeling her continued absence is entirely plot, rather than character driven. Having her set off for university with a much older, controlling boyfriend - in the midst of a quarrel with her mother - is a really effective way of writing her out of TA for the foreseeable future. Given the context she could legitimately not return over holidays - she'll be waitressing, they'll have a social life, study to catch up on ... She might just become a distant memory, while they concentrate on the LL heir.

It's not the story I want, but ...

Lizzie has issues. She has lots of possible family support that she doesn't use and over-plays the 'single mum' card.
Since Nigel died she has thrown herself into the upkeep of LL, so much so that she was often distant to the DT. She has now gone to the opposite extreme and seems to be concentrating too much on the DT to the detriment of LL. It must be possible to be a good-enough manager and a good-enough parent but she seems unable to get the balance. She has no need to be so deeply involved in LL - Lily's shopping trip proved that money is not a problem - so she could dial back and delegate more if she wanted to.
She was too hands-off during the DT's sixthform and didn't notice what they were up to. She has now gone overboard the other way and is trying to stick her nose into their matters when they would rather that she didn't. She cannot do balance!
I think that she is also a control freak. She enjoyed running LL because it was straightforward management. Maybe she shied away from the DT because teenagers are not 'manageable'. She cannot cope when life is beyond her control - eg Nigel's unexpected death or the judicial system.

I got the impression that Freddy would have liked to see David. Perhaps to recruit him in handling Lizzie.

He probably wants to see his mates i.e. Jonny. Even Lily.

As regards Lily - I have a feeling her continued absence is entirely plot, rather than character driven. Completely agree - if she were around she would be helping to keep LL ticking over and protecting Freddie from Lizzie's worst excesses. I actually had exactly that thought last night - the penny dropped that the SW needed Lily out of the way. Had she just gone to university in the normal way she might well have deferred her place for year and stayed around to help Elizabeth or at least have popped back from time to time to lend a hand.

Yes! Exactly that Lil'G - they've engineered such a serious rift ...

She'll eventually return with a new voice and a beaten up Volvo estate full of small, slightly ravenous children. The Artist will follow a couple of days later, weeping and importunate, promising all sorts of new beginnings.

Yes Mina I get the feeling that to up the "drama" the SWs have been instructed to keep Lizzie from talking to David who has some commonsense and is a calming influence on his little sister.

I will be disappointed if Lily vanishes. The Russ SL needs to be resolved, we need to hear him get his comeuppance quickly.