Who let the cows out? Moo, moo, moo moo! Will Pip be caught out, and will Matt or Justin bowl a maiden over? Discuss The Archers here

[PseudoBadger]

'Ello pusscat!
I am eagerly anticipating Pip's downfall.

Pip has not been honest with David and Ruth about the cows, but Ruth has not been honest with David about the money from the cows.

I wouldn't regard these two as equivalent. Pip's money was her own to spend as she wished - the fact that she didn't want to tell David she had loaned it to Toby was her business and Ruth respected that instead of passing it on which put her in a difficult position.

Pip's lying and secrecy about the cows was absolutely Ruth and David's business and Pip's lying and bad husbandry has increased the risk to their wider family and the Brookfield business.

It was money loaned to her by David to set her up in business- she then asked for more money and lied about what she'd done with the profits. She did the same when she asked Jill for money - on Toby's advice. It's not exactly the same as letting the cows get out and lying about it, but it is related to the business of the farm. Maybe Ruth thinks if she had called Pip on those lies she might have been quicker to own up about the cows escaping. It's the reason she's taking a hard line about the escaped cows while David is more inclined to forgive - Ruth can't tell him this because she'd have to tell him about covering up for Pip over the money. It's a pattern of lying and deceit and poor farm management with Toby at the root - and Ruth can't say anything about that because she went so far out on a limb to defend him against Jill.

It's about trust. Ruth doesn't trust Pip any more. And she's doubting herself. I think that's why she's become so withdrawn.

Bravo Lillian. Spot on.

"Ruth has not been honest with David about the money from the cows"

But it wasn't up to Ruth to tell David about that!

I don't think Toby can be blamed, however much I dislike him. Toby is not a farmer and has no understanding of the issues. Would Pip take advice from Kirsty for example about how to deal with a farming problem. She just wouldn't. Pip covered it up because it suited her.

It was money loaned to her by David to set her up in business-

I thought Pip had paid back the base loan and it was the remaining profit she loaned Toby instead of putting into new cattle?
Also this was fundamentally Pip's issue to explain or not to David, not Ruth's.

I don't think Toby can be blamed, however much I dislike him. Toby is not a farmer and has no understanding of the issues.

Quite. He may be fairly useless with a staggering sense of entitlement but this Mark of Cain routine that Jill (and to a lessor extent David) have had running against him is ridiculous.

Just listening again, having heard the big party scene last week, and finding it very amusing to hear 'Tainted Love' being played in the preamble to the Ruth'n'Pip showdown. Scales falling from eyes indeed.

Shame about the acting, though - Pip's vocal stylings get weirder and weirder.

Toby is just another of Pip's bad decisions imo.

I don't think it can be easy actually working with your adult children. I don't reckon we'd risk it! (We do love our dcs). Just not that much! Luckily we're not farmers.

Ruth should have had a right go at Pip in the terrace scene. All that business from Pip about "I demand that you tell me what the problem is, I need to know the truth." Ruth's response should have been "the truth is that you told lies - to me, your father, the entire village - and kept telling them, you hypocrite."

But the problem with the Dopeys is that they do treat Pip like she is God.
I think Pip and Toby are a good match, they both think they are superior to everyone else, and that rules are meant for mere mortals.
I did like Lily at the party, I think she is fun. Inviting people because they are facebook friends was hilarious.

Agree that Toby can't take the fall as she is the expert in the field. she was unprofessional.

The profit was to do with as pip wanted but I understood the idea was that the loan was to enable her to build a business. Which she can't do if she sinks her profit into other projects.

Pip's a liar. Ruth is shocked and disappointed. Ruth was able to justify the 'cow profit' omission to herself based on Jill and David's mistrust of Toby. There's no explanation for Pip's failure to tell the truth about the escaped cows other than that Pip didn't want to own up. Pip is not the farmer Ruth thought she was and she feels a fool. Sad times.

But, Toby has consistently advised Pip to continue lying, even when it was clear- even to a non farmer- how grave the situation was. Still Pip's fault, but he is partly to blame.
Am beyond shocked to read that Justin looks like Paul Weller. I had him down as an up-market Victor Meldrew in looks. Hope he turns out to be penniless.

But it wasn't up to Ruth to tell David about that! Pip should have been honest about it, but Ruth colluded with her in the cover up. Pip lied about what she had done with her profits - which David quite reasonably thought were going to be ploughed back into the business (that was why he gave her the loan in the first place and why he rightly refused her a loan the second time).
Toby is not a farmer and Pip's decisions are down to her and her alone. But her instinct was to confess - it was Toby who persuaded her that she should carry on lying if she thought she could get away with it (much like him and Brighton). He is a bad influence on her - Jill is right (even if she does sound like a raving lunatic on the subject).

She's an adult and a professional. If I lied at work in a similar way my boss would laugh me out of the room if I tried to blame dh! She is the employee and an adult.

I don't think she can use Toby as an excuse, but she must know in her heart of hearts that if she hadn't listened to him she would have done the right thing straight away. Her instinct was to do the right thing. She must be wondering now if she did the right thing by giving him all her money instead of using it to build up her own business.

Pip should be re-thinking Toby and his behaviour in general. I still can't believe that she forgave the loss of the hens so readily. His advice is rubbish and any sane adult would ignore it in such a crisis. She's demonstrated spectacular immaturity and awful judgement.

I'm going to give that a go Anti and see where it gets me not really

Pip should have been honest about it, but Ruth colluded with her in the cover up. Pip lied about what she had done with her profits - which David quite reasonably thought were going to be ploughed back into the business (that was why he gave her the loan in the first place and why he rightly refused her a loan the second time).

It wasn't David's investment though was it? I don't remember any mention of it coming from his personal piggy bank, I thought it was a farm investment in which case its Ruth's investment as much as David's.

Do we know how much money Toby needs ?

So Pip's already making it Ruth's fault that she's fallen out with her. She really sounds like a petulant 10 year old.

I know Pip's got a lot on her mind, but she seemed amazingly uninterested in the fact that the business she invested £5K in was about to go down the pan.

On another topic: go Lily!