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Moving to Liverpool, commuting to London - is it mad?

227 replies

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:04

We are living in London and renting - while we have a good LL who charges a decent rent, the news and the fact that estate agents are charging significantly more for flats in the same building is adding to the massive anxiety I get for six months a year about whether we will be made homeless. We have some family and health things going on at the moment which is further underlining how difficult it is to not be able to properly plan more than a year in advance as you don't know whether you'll have to move, or how difficult it is when you live five hours by train or a nightbus away from somewhere you now have to visit more often.

We can't afford to buy in London, unless it was shared ownership, which I'm not entirely sure is a good option. I don't care about the property ladder or building up equity, I just want to put down some money for a place that will be ours and not have to move again unless we really want to. We don't have or will have kids, we both have jobs which would allow us to move out of the city as long as we can attend our London offices in person once a week or fortnight - colleagues of mine are currently doing this and I've been asking how they've been finding it. And I've lived in London long enough that I would be more than happy getting to know a new city, especially if I feel I'm able to relax a little more on a day to day basis. We want to make a home there rather than the temporary feeling of renting which makes you feel like you can't really get yourself involved in the community and get to know it, even if part of me worries that we're just moving London's unaffordability problem to a different community?

DH is quite keen that any move would be to another city - neither of us drive, I want to live somewhere which has its own thing rather than being a dormitory community of London (plus buying/renting in the traditional commuter belt is not much cheaper, especially when factoring in train costs) both of us want the potential to change jobs rather than keep our current ones if we decide to do so which makes Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds/Sheffield seem like good places to start. I lived in Manchester for a while, but Liverpool looks like a good option - family were from there so I feel a bit of an affinity, it's cheaper to live there, it has a good feeling about it that makes me feel it could be a good place to settle. DH is happy with a similar size flat as the one we rent just now, I would be too, but the leasehold thing makes me wonder if it would effectivley feel like renting with the extra restrictions and potential hikes in cost. I don't have a problem with somewhere needing redecorating or having to plan to replace the kitchen over the next few years etc. but we don't have the skills to do anything major, we'd have to pay other people to do it for us.

I don't even know where to start looking other than 'where's near the station' or which areas are realistically an option to get to the train first thing. I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning. There are lots of houses by Anfield that are well within that but I keep seeing people say it's a dodgy area - I never know what that means given that what people consider 'dodgy areas' near us in SE London are a) ones we're probably priced out of b) seem absolutely fine to me c) often seems code for 'working class' or 'too many chicken shops' - it's more that my experiences of Victorian terraces is that they're generally massively damp that puts me off!

This is a long-term thing to think about whilst we keep adding to our deposit funds, making ourselves look like good people for the bank to lend a load of money to, and dealing with other stuff, but any advice? Thanks and sorry for rambling, I'm just overthinking as usual :)

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BringOnSummerHolidays · 26/07/2023 13:17

It's not mad if you plan to change jobs. But long term commuting that distance is mad. You said you don't drive, but it's easy to learn. You have written off a large swathe of the south where you can drive to a station, then train to London in a much more reasonable time and cost. It doesn't need to be traditional commuter belt if you are only doing once a week or fortnight. The commuter belt is for daily commutes.

Hintofreality · 26/07/2023 13:22

Anfield is not an area I would choose to live in.
Trains from Liverpool Lime Street to London can be ridiculously expensive if you don’t bay way in advance, the earlly morning trains can also be over crowded.

it’s doable but I would definitely rethink Anfield.

BelindaBears · 26/07/2023 13:26

Do you mean £100k total budget or £100k and you’ll have a decent deposit on top? I’m not in Liverpool (another northern city which is generally comparable on house prices) and searching for 1 bedroom flats under £100k only brings up retirement properties and areas of the city I wouldn’t touch with a bargepole. I’m not sure how realistic your budget is for an area with good public transport links.

Soontobe60 · 26/07/2023 13:29

I live in a suburb of Manchester, and £100K would buy you a flat in a grotty block full of renters in the dodgiest part of town. £180 would buy you a nice little 2 bed terrace in a quieter part, near the Tram that would take you straight into Piccadilly and trains to London.
Don’t forget to factor in the cost of commuter trains to London 4x monthly for each of you - that may well add on and extra £100 each journey to your outgoings.

PuttingDownRoots · 26/07/2023 13:30

There is a thread running currently where a poster has moved a long way from London, but the days her husband is expected in the office ate increasing....

YorkshireIndie · 26/07/2023 13:30

York to London is doable as it is about 2hrs but it is harder to get to Liverpool and is a longer journey (if I remember correctly)

Would Peterborough work?

KievLoverTwo · 26/07/2023 13:34

I don't think it's mad if it's once a fortnight, especially if it improves your quality of life and gives you security. I can't comment on Liverpool, but we've been looking at locations sort of equidistant between Manchester and London for work for quite some time and have narrowed down these locations (all reasonable sized towns):

Darlington in County Durham. Has a bit of a rep of being a bit of a no-man's land and if you looked back on Mumsnet threads there's a 50/50 split between those saying 'it's grim' and others saying 'shut up, it's fine.' Not spectacularly high crime compared to London. Search of 100k < brings up many results. In a wider context, it's quite a pretty county with lots of nice sights and castles but you would benefit from having a car. Furthest North of my recommendations. The West of Darlington is the most well thought of.

Northallerton in North Yorkshire. Lots of small new builds. Decent sized town for food and eating. Not particularly crime ridden. Lots of people so there's a high volume of sales there.

Thirsk in North Yorkshire. Beautiful, bustling market town. Housing stock is either falling down old or boxy new build and absolutely nothing in between. It would be a very nice place to live with a good sense of community and lots within walking distance. Probably a negligible crime rate.

Caveat re: County Durham and North Yorkshire. Internet can be spectacularly bad - I've seen many new looking houses that can't get better than 20mbps, if that's important to you. I have a tool that shows me all the BT exchanges in the country so I only look within 3 miles, along with a BT spreadsheet of the postcodes so I can search within 3 miles of the exact exchange, because I've buggered around looking at so many lovely houses that can't get more than 5mbp.

Another possibility is Doncaster in W Yorks. The OH grew up there and frankly would never, ever move back - he just thinks it's too grim. But it has direct access to London, a lot of cheap properties and it's a big town with access to lots of things. It probably has the worst crime rate of the locations I've mentioned, and Idk what access to Manchester is like from there. I've been there several times and don't think it's THAT bad, but I grew up near Brixton and several ropey parts of Kent, so I would say that.

KievLoverTwo · 26/07/2023 13:36

Just to add, set your search criteria to 125k, because some people will HAVE to take offers, the worse mortgage rates get.

deeplybaffled · 26/07/2023 13:42

Liverpool to London is usually trains hourly or so and can be done in 2-2.5 hrs. Obviously depends where you need to be in London as all Liverpool trains go to Euston, and how long to get to Lime Street.

I live on the Wirral and depending on where you live, you could be in lime street within about 15-20 mins.

for £100k you’d need to be picky in areas but this might work

for me, Anfield would be a no - and I’m a Liverpool fan!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137264327#/?channel=RES_BUY

Check out this 2 bedroom flat for sale on Rightmove

2 bedroom flat for sale in Mayfair Court, Prenton, Wirral, CH43 for £100,000. Marketed by Purplebricks, covering Chester and Wirral

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137264327#/?channel=RES_BUY

whirlyhead · 26/07/2023 13:43

I commuted from manchester to london for several months and it wasn't fun as it was a long and expensive journey - the trains are even worse now (and more expensive) as virgin no longer run them. You also have tube costs on top when you get into euston. I imagine the trip from Liverpool would be worse.

What about Birmingham as that's an easier journey?

Pinkitydrinkity · 26/07/2023 13:46

I think two hours once a fortnight is OK, provided you could do a shorter day and make up the time during the week. I personally wouldn’t do it once a week, but everyone is different.

Also it is an unpopular opinion but I don’t think shared ownership is the worst thing ever. It has its problems, but if the other option is renting forever then I’d say it’s favourable!

Mutabiliss · 26/07/2023 13:48

Hmm. I have a friend who's recently done similar to what you're planning - moved from London to Liverpool, commutes once a month. She's not loving it, tbh. The commute is a very, very long day, and very expensive, she's exhausted by mid-afternoon. She's also finding Liverpool a bit dull compared to what's on offer in London. They do have a small child so there's that to factor in, but it doesn't sound like something I would choose to do.

If you were only doing it for a while with a view to getting a job closer eventually, I guess that would be do-able? But I would be inclined to rent first and find an area you really love, rather than buying somewhere cheap but a bit shit.

BarbaraofSeville · 26/07/2023 13:55

Trains to get to London for a working day are very expensive, discounts on these trips are few and far between. If there are any at all, you'd need to book it on the day of release, for 3 months ahead at a time or you'd have to assume you're nearly always going to pay full price (£320 return from Leeds to London, probably similar from the other cities you mention, I don't know if they ever introduced the 'flexi commute' season tickets that would make it cheaper. Plus there's been horrendous problems with strikes and reliability, you'd really struggle to rely on the trains if you had to be in work.

.

LakeTiticaca · 26/07/2023 13:56

YorkshireIndie · 26/07/2023 13:30

York to London is doable as it is about 2hrs but it is harder to get to Liverpool and is a longer journey (if I remember correctly)

Would Peterborough work?

York is not particularly cheap

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:59

I just came up with a ballpark figure looking at the deposit we have now (£50k) and looking at prices on Rightmove. We don't know what the rates will be like in a year and so I may be being overly cautious in terms of how much we might be lent - things are being tightened up all over the place. I haven't lived in Manchester for twenty years nearly so I don't have a good handle on what's a reasonable price there but we would definitely have to be prepared to spend more and make peace with living in a leasehold flat or not being able to be within a couple of miles' walk of the station.

I am really set on living in a city, rather than a smaller town. I'm not allowed to drive for medical reasons, I don't want to be dependent on someone else to get me around when it comes to commuting, and we don't want the extra hassle and cost of a car that we'll barely use. DH is very keen on living somewhere where there are regular gigs which is why Manchester and Liverpool appeal at the moment.

Our offices are near King's Cross so no tube costs on top, we can walk there. One of my colleagues comes from Manchester once a week (Stretford) and one from Liverpool (Crosby) so I've been asking them about how they find it to understand the pros and cons. For reference, it takes me one to 1.5 hours to get to work from where I live now, albeit for much less money 😁

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BringOnSummerHolidays · 26/07/2023 14:01

The fact you can't drive changes things a lot. I think you need to look at work in Manchester and Liverpool. There are a lot of jobs in Manchester. It's very a thriving city.

I think the suggestion about Birmingham isn't mad at all. It's much more commutable to London. As you know, it's not just about the time, but also cost.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:03

Mutabiliss · 26/07/2023 13:48

Hmm. I have a friend who's recently done similar to what you're planning - moved from London to Liverpool, commutes once a month. She's not loving it, tbh. The commute is a very, very long day, and very expensive, she's exhausted by mid-afternoon. She's also finding Liverpool a bit dull compared to what's on offer in London. They do have a small child so there's that to factor in, but it doesn't sound like something I would choose to do.

If you were only doing it for a while with a view to getting a job closer eventually, I guess that would be do-able? But I would be inclined to rent first and find an area you really love, rather than buying somewhere cheap but a bit shit.

That's interesting to know. TBH I'm quite tired of London in a lot of ways, DH used to live in Reading and I miss the smaller scale of it, being able to walk into town on a Saturday for a coffee and a poke around. I hate limescale, I hate how provincial London feels sometimes when it comes to anything outside it, I hate that we pay so much money to basically sit at a kitchen table to work three to five days a week when we could be doing that anywhere and it feels a bad investment. I could equally hate anywhere else we live for the same or different reasons, but I wouldn't be constantly worried about being two months from eviction or a 50% rent hike, so that's why I'm thinking hard.

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2bazookas · 26/07/2023 14:06

OP, you have to target some/any area, GO THERE, do your own research (on risk/desirability/ prices/ performance of commuting transport: and form your own judgement..

Nobody can do that for you.

I've known people happily commute Glasgow/London; Isle of Arran/SE England.
But they started from researching every thing about the finance , time, transport and other adjustments that would be required.

BarbaraofSeville · 26/07/2023 14:06

Can you move to any other cities and change roles/bases within your existing employers?

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:07

BringOnSummerHolidays · 26/07/2023 14:01

The fact you can't drive changes things a lot. I think you need to look at work in Manchester and Liverpool. There are a lot of jobs in Manchester. It's very a thriving city.

I think the suggestion about Birmingham isn't mad at all. It's much more commutable to London. As you know, it's not just about the time, but also cost.

I don't know much about Birmingham tbh, though it definitely is close commuting-wise.

We can move with the jobs we have now, I'm open to changing them as is DH, but it would make things easier to move first. The industries we work in are more likely to have opportunities in Manchester; Liverpool possibly but that is at least in reasonable travelling distance.

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user1494050295 · 26/07/2023 14:08

What about Brighton in terms of the music scene

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:08

2bazookas · 26/07/2023 14:06

OP, you have to target some/any area, GO THERE, do your own research (on risk/desirability/ prices/ performance of commuting transport: and form your own judgement..

Nobody can do that for you.

I've known people happily commute Glasgow/London; Isle of Arran/SE England.
But they started from researching every thing about the finance , time, transport and other adjustments that would be required.

I'm doing that research now, in this thread. This isn't the first time I've thought about it or even looked into it, and it helps to see what other people think if they've done the same.

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PrinceHaz · 26/07/2023 14:09

How about Norwich?

Allthegoodnamestakken · 26/07/2023 14:09

I would second a previous posters suggestion about renting somewhere for a while 6-12 months. You can then 1. Confirm you like the city and 2. Explore different areas and decide where would suit you best.
I would avoid Anfield
You could look at the area around lark lane and Sefton Park although your budget might not cut it there. Lots of shops, cafes, bars etc. you can walk to, a huge park for green space but also not too far from the city centre.
West derby village area would be cheaper but is a longer Journey into the city for the london train. However theirs also quite a bit in the 'village' center and again a lovely park for green space.
A lot of the areas directly bordering the city center aren't great and I'm not sure you'd get a flat on the waterfront for that budget which is why it might be wise to look at the suburbs with their own 'center' but easy public transport into the main city.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:10

user1494050295 · 26/07/2023 14:08

What about Brighton in terms of the music scene

Prices are near comparable to London. Otherwise, yes, absolutely we'd be looking at it.

I'd be happy to move to Eastbourne but DH thinks it's too small and at the moment it's really important for us to be fairly close to a mainline station to travel to see family which is a reasonable concern.

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