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Moving to Liverpool, commuting to London - is it mad?

227 replies

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:04

We are living in London and renting - while we have a good LL who charges a decent rent, the news and the fact that estate agents are charging significantly more for flats in the same building is adding to the massive anxiety I get for six months a year about whether we will be made homeless. We have some family and health things going on at the moment which is further underlining how difficult it is to not be able to properly plan more than a year in advance as you don't know whether you'll have to move, or how difficult it is when you live five hours by train or a nightbus away from somewhere you now have to visit more often.

We can't afford to buy in London, unless it was shared ownership, which I'm not entirely sure is a good option. I don't care about the property ladder or building up equity, I just want to put down some money for a place that will be ours and not have to move again unless we really want to. We don't have or will have kids, we both have jobs which would allow us to move out of the city as long as we can attend our London offices in person once a week or fortnight - colleagues of mine are currently doing this and I've been asking how they've been finding it. And I've lived in London long enough that I would be more than happy getting to know a new city, especially if I feel I'm able to relax a little more on a day to day basis. We want to make a home there rather than the temporary feeling of renting which makes you feel like you can't really get yourself involved in the community and get to know it, even if part of me worries that we're just moving London's unaffordability problem to a different community?

DH is quite keen that any move would be to another city - neither of us drive, I want to live somewhere which has its own thing rather than being a dormitory community of London (plus buying/renting in the traditional commuter belt is not much cheaper, especially when factoring in train costs) both of us want the potential to change jobs rather than keep our current ones if we decide to do so which makes Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds/Sheffield seem like good places to start. I lived in Manchester for a while, but Liverpool looks like a good option - family were from there so I feel a bit of an affinity, it's cheaper to live there, it has a good feeling about it that makes me feel it could be a good place to settle. DH is happy with a similar size flat as the one we rent just now, I would be too, but the leasehold thing makes me wonder if it would effectivley feel like renting with the extra restrictions and potential hikes in cost. I don't have a problem with somewhere needing redecorating or having to plan to replace the kitchen over the next few years etc. but we don't have the skills to do anything major, we'd have to pay other people to do it for us.

I don't even know where to start looking other than 'where's near the station' or which areas are realistically an option to get to the train first thing. I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning. There are lots of houses by Anfield that are well within that but I keep seeing people say it's a dodgy area - I never know what that means given that what people consider 'dodgy areas' near us in SE London are a) ones we're probably priced out of b) seem absolutely fine to me c) often seems code for 'working class' or 'too many chicken shops' - it's more that my experiences of Victorian terraces is that they're generally massively damp that puts me off!

This is a long-term thing to think about whilst we keep adding to our deposit funds, making ourselves look like good people for the bank to lend a load of money to, and dealing with other stuff, but any advice? Thanks and sorry for rambling, I'm just overthinking as usual :)

OP posts:
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GandTtwice · 26/07/2023 14:11

Waterloo is next to Crosby in Liverpool but with much easier access to the train into Liverpool (15 mins)
Rightmove shows several in the £125-150,000 range https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/L22.html
It's a nice area with plenty of independent shops, restaurants, parks, the beach etc

Rightmove.co.uk

Search over a Million properties for sale and to rent from the top estate agents and developers in the UK

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/L22.html

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:11

BarbaraofSeville · 26/07/2023 14:06

Can you move to any other cities and change roles/bases within your existing employers?

No. It's WFH with the once a week/fortnight in, or move to a different company.

OP posts:
user1494050295 · 26/07/2023 14:12

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:10

Prices are near comparable to London. Otherwise, yes, absolutely we'd be looking at it.

I'd be happy to move to Eastbourne but DH thinks it's too small and at the moment it's really important for us to be fairly close to a mainline station to travel to see family which is a reasonable concern.

Yep forgot about the price aspect. Why not rent in the first instance near to Brighton though to get a taste.

KievLoverTwo · 26/07/2023 14:14

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:59

I just came up with a ballpark figure looking at the deposit we have now (£50k) and looking at prices on Rightmove. We don't know what the rates will be like in a year and so I may be being overly cautious in terms of how much we might be lent - things are being tightened up all over the place. I haven't lived in Manchester for twenty years nearly so I don't have a good handle on what's a reasonable price there but we would definitely have to be prepared to spend more and make peace with living in a leasehold flat or not being able to be within a couple of miles' walk of the station.

I am really set on living in a city, rather than a smaller town. I'm not allowed to drive for medical reasons, I don't want to be dependent on someone else to get me around when it comes to commuting, and we don't want the extra hassle and cost of a car that we'll barely use. DH is very keen on living somewhere where there are regular gigs which is why Manchester and Liverpool appeal at the moment.

Our offices are near King's Cross so no tube costs on top, we can walk there. One of my colleagues comes from Manchester once a week (Stretford) and one from Liverpool (Crosby) so I've been asking them about how they find it to understand the pros and cons. For reference, it takes me one to 1.5 hours to get to work from where I live now, albeit for much less money 😁

I think your list of expectations versus your budget are unrealistic.

Maybe look at Nottingham. It's pretty stabby but I have quite a few friends who live there that don't earn a lot and it has a fantastic gig scene and some of the restaurants they go to make me drool.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:14

Allthegoodnamestakken · 26/07/2023 14:09

I would second a previous posters suggestion about renting somewhere for a while 6-12 months. You can then 1. Confirm you like the city and 2. Explore different areas and decide where would suit you best.
I would avoid Anfield
You could look at the area around lark lane and Sefton Park although your budget might not cut it there. Lots of shops, cafes, bars etc. you can walk to, a huge park for green space but also not too far from the city centre.
West derby village area would be cheaper but is a longer Journey into the city for the london train. However theirs also quite a bit in the 'village' center and again a lovely park for green space.
A lot of the areas directly bordering the city center aren't great and I'm not sure you'd get a flat on the waterfront for that budget which is why it might be wise to look at the suburbs with their own 'center' but easy public transport into the main city.

This would definitely be the sensible way to do it. I'm just nervous about how completely shitty the rental market is everywhere, there's a reason why we haven't moved for years and why I'm wondering whether a £400pcm rent rise is actually doable so we don't have to deal with bidding wars and bullshit while we decide if we do want to make the move.

I have looked at all those areas before now, actually, so it's good to hear those recommendations.

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Ballsacks · 26/07/2023 14:20

I would choose to rent in London rather than live anywhere else just to get a mortgage. Just another view. You only get one life. Live it where you want to live

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:24

Ballsacks · 26/07/2023 14:20

I would choose to rent in London rather than live anywhere else just to get a mortgage. Just another view. You only get one life. Live it where you want to live

I think this about living in a commuter town, but I don't feel wedded to London enough to feel like that about London, and the anxiety about renting and the insecurity of it is literally making me ill so I'm not enjoying life as much as I could be.

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Mushroo · 26/07/2023 14:31

Have you factored in the cost of the train? I go once a month (work pays) and even with booking in advance with a railcard its about £200 each time.

Can you not live a bit closer (say Nottingham) and up the house budget because of the cheaper train?

nancy75 · 26/07/2023 14:32

We are from London & DD was considering uni in Liverpool - the train service is absolutely diabolical. We had cancelled trains, couldn’t get a direct train at weekends & it was expensive. We visited more than once - on one occasion the journey took 5 hours!
if you’re in a job where you have to rely on the train once a week I would seriously think twice.
Liverpool itself has a nice feel about it & I liked it much more than I expected but it’s very small compared to London & I think I might be bored of it quite quickly

Picklechamp · 26/07/2023 14:32

Give Leeds some serious consideration. Affordable, easy commute into Kings X, buzzing live music and food scene.

gingerguineapig · 26/07/2023 14:35

I have a friend near Chester who commutes to London on occasion, but it's on occasion. She goes from Chester or Crewe.

Liverpool can work, but as others have said, not Anfield! Most of the areas near the city centre aren't great. I was going to suggest West Derby as a pp said but it would be a bit of a trek to Lime St (although I think there's a newish parkway station too - not sure if the London train stops there).

I would also suggest Peterborough or places like Grantham. Seems a long way but the trains are fast into London. But maybe too small if Eastbourne is no good. Have you considered Portsmouth or Southampton (no clue on house prices, sorry).

gingerguineapig · 26/07/2023 14:36

We are from London & DD was considering uni in Liverpool - the train service is absolutely diabolical. We had cancelled trains, couldn’t get a direct train at weekends & it was expensive. We visited more than once - on one occasion the journey took 5 hour

Yes it was terrible a while ago, I don't know if Avanti have got their act together since then!

When it works, it's really good.

MammaTo · 26/07/2023 14:39

Allthegoodnamestakken · 26/07/2023 14:09

I would second a previous posters suggestion about renting somewhere for a while 6-12 months. You can then 1. Confirm you like the city and 2. Explore different areas and decide where would suit you best.
I would avoid Anfield
You could look at the area around lark lane and Sefton Park although your budget might not cut it there. Lots of shops, cafes, bars etc. you can walk to, a huge park for green space but also not too far from the city centre.
West derby village area would be cheaper but is a longer Journey into the city for the london train. However theirs also quite a bit in the 'village' center and again a lovely park for green space.
A lot of the areas directly bordering the city center aren't great and I'm not sure you'd get a flat on the waterfront for that budget which is why it might be wise to look at the suburbs with their own 'center' but easy public transport into the main city.

I agree with the suggested areas and I live in Anfield.

You also have to take football traffic into consideration, when the footballs on you’ve got anfield and goodison both clogging up the traffic.

Dont get me wrong I love where I live and I love my house but we grew up in the area so I feel like you learn to see past the bad stuff when you’ve lived here a long time. There are good and bad parts of Anfield definitely.

But Lark Lane, Sefton Park, Woolton Village, Aigburth are all gorgeous areas. Also Aintree is really nice too, not as many cafes and parks but good transport links.

Soozikinzii · 26/07/2023 14:39

I know someone in my area, which is between Wigan and Bolton (yes, there is such a place !) who works in London . They go up for 2 days with one overnight stay and WFH another 2 days . The rain from Wigan to London is only 2 hours . So it definitely doable! Our area has good schools etc.

JorisBonson · 26/07/2023 14:40

gingerguineapig · 26/07/2023 14:36

We are from London & DD was considering uni in Liverpool - the train service is absolutely diabolical. We had cancelled trains, couldn’t get a direct train at weekends & it was expensive. We visited more than once - on one occasion the journey took 5 hour

Yes it was terrible a while ago, I don't know if Avanti have got their act together since then!

When it works, it's really good.

They have not. Took my DF 11 hours London - Glasgow a few weeks ago!

Ohyoudodoyou · 26/07/2023 14:41

Stick to your guns, look at flats around the waterfront in Liverpool, south ferry quay area.I have friends there, perfect for all the cafes bars and restaurants, handy for gp/Pharmacies/hospitals also green spaces such as Sefton park and not too far from stations. It's quiet there away from the crowds but obviously still a city with city pros and cons. Go visit, there's a lovely yacht club there I was taken to for lunch.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:41

I was surprised houses in Anfield were so cheap as I assumed the location would have meant they carried a premium - when I looked when first thinking about this it didn't look any better or worse than anywhere else.

My mum grew up in West Derby but that was a very very long time ago.

OP posts:
Lwrenagain · 26/07/2023 14:41

I'm originally from Liverpool as is my DP but we live on the Wirral also.
Most our pals are musicians etc and the wirral does have a great scene for gigs and live music.

For what you want in Liverpool, you can't afford, simply put.
You'd want a vibrant boho area and you're looking at parts of city centre, lark lane or a place called Waterloo at a push.

I'd consider the wirral and look at new brighton, it's a small, boho, vibrant seaside town with excellent transport links.

DP and are are both from rougher parts of Liverpool and they're actually quite brutal.
Scousers have a very 50/50 reputation and honestly it's fair.
Some of the most wonderful humans you'll meet are scousers, but we're not short a dickhead or two either.

I loved the more studenty areas in Liverpool but its definitely a place you need to know or as PP said, it's very underwhelming, especially from coming from London.

Has got much better food than its given credit for though and I'll die on that hill 😂

If you want to check out wirral for venues that will cater to the rock n roll life style, please let me know, I'm not in with the cool kids these days but my DexH and his Dwife and many of my friends are, I'd be able to get you tons of suggestions, nay drama!

But new brighton is definitely the place I'd consider most on Merseyside for your lifestyle!

I also do love Manchester, but haven't been since about 2018, but it has many wonderful places to visit and is definitely good for food and music venues and things to do, I just couldn't advise an area there to live, my friends tended to live in more 3 bed semi type houses closer to school etc.

Good luck!

IHateLegDay · 26/07/2023 14:43

Lwrenagain · 26/07/2023 14:41

I'm originally from Liverpool as is my DP but we live on the Wirral also.
Most our pals are musicians etc and the wirral does have a great scene for gigs and live music.

For what you want in Liverpool, you can't afford, simply put.
You'd want a vibrant boho area and you're looking at parts of city centre, lark lane or a place called Waterloo at a push.

I'd consider the wirral and look at new brighton, it's a small, boho, vibrant seaside town with excellent transport links.

DP and are are both from rougher parts of Liverpool and they're actually quite brutal.
Scousers have a very 50/50 reputation and honestly it's fair.
Some of the most wonderful humans you'll meet are scousers, but we're not short a dickhead or two either.

I loved the more studenty areas in Liverpool but its definitely a place you need to know or as PP said, it's very underwhelming, especially from coming from London.

Has got much better food than its given credit for though and I'll die on that hill 😂

If you want to check out wirral for venues that will cater to the rock n roll life style, please let me know, I'm not in with the cool kids these days but my DexH and his Dwife and many of my friends are, I'd be able to get you tons of suggestions, nay drama!

But new brighton is definitely the place I'd consider most on Merseyside for your lifestyle!

I also do love Manchester, but haven't been since about 2018, but it has many wonderful places to visit and is definitely good for food and music venues and things to do, I just couldn't advise an area there to live, my friends tended to live in more 3 bed semi type houses closer to school etc.

Good luck!

Another vote for New Brighton. I love it here and wouldn't live anywhere else.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:46

Lwrenagain · 26/07/2023 14:41

I'm originally from Liverpool as is my DP but we live on the Wirral also.
Most our pals are musicians etc and the wirral does have a great scene for gigs and live music.

For what you want in Liverpool, you can't afford, simply put.
You'd want a vibrant boho area and you're looking at parts of city centre, lark lane or a place called Waterloo at a push.

I'd consider the wirral and look at new brighton, it's a small, boho, vibrant seaside town with excellent transport links.

DP and are are both from rougher parts of Liverpool and they're actually quite brutal.
Scousers have a very 50/50 reputation and honestly it's fair.
Some of the most wonderful humans you'll meet are scousers, but we're not short a dickhead or two either.

I loved the more studenty areas in Liverpool but its definitely a place you need to know or as PP said, it's very underwhelming, especially from coming from London.

Has got much better food than its given credit for though and I'll die on that hill 😂

If you want to check out wirral for venues that will cater to the rock n roll life style, please let me know, I'm not in with the cool kids these days but my DexH and his Dwife and many of my friends are, I'd be able to get you tons of suggestions, nay drama!

But new brighton is definitely the place I'd consider most on Merseyside for your lifestyle!

I also do love Manchester, but haven't been since about 2018, but it has many wonderful places to visit and is definitely good for food and music venues and things to do, I just couldn't advise an area there to live, my friends tended to live in more 3 bed semi type houses closer to school etc.

Good luck!

You may well be right, but as I said, it's really hard to work out what a sensible budget is right now! I've heard Kennington isn't great, and from living in Manchester I wouldn't fancy living in a student area (houses badly maintained, transient population, more crime, things there cater to students so it feels a bit like an enclave) so yeah.

OP posts:
Kleptronic · 26/07/2023 14:50

There are some nice areas round Halewood/Calderstones/Garston in Liverpool which would be handy for Liverpool South Parkway, the London train stops there.

You'll come up against affordability in the truly nice areas like Woolton/Allerton/West Derby. Wavertree is up and coming so maybe look there.

Waterloo is affordable, by the beach and there's a thriving village/restaurant/cinema/bars/bistros/djs/comedy etc. scene. There's a community pub and comedy club in Bootle, they put live music/comedy on. You can get the train through to South Parkway too, saves you walking across town from Central to Lime Street.

blahblahblah1654 · 26/07/2023 14:53

Anfield isn't a great area of Liverpool. There are many other much nicer areas. I would only move if you plan on changing jobs at some point as there's a good chance you may need to increase your time in the office at some point and it's a long way. I would visit the area quite a bit first if you haven't already.

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:53

We could buy a flat in Bootle near outright with the savings we have right now, but people seem to talk it down an awful lot. Mind you, they do with Croydon and our other option would be a shared ownership place there if we stayed in London, so what do the naysayers know?

OP posts:
YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 14:54

blahblahblah1654 · 26/07/2023 14:53

Anfield isn't a great area of Liverpool. There are many other much nicer areas. I would only move if you plan on changing jobs at some point as there's a good chance you may need to increase your time in the office at some point and it's a long way. I would visit the area quite a bit first if you haven't already.

I'm keeping an eye on this possiblity as well, but as I said some of my colleagues are doing similar commutes, and some before Covid, so my work has been fairly clear about the policies they have for WFH. Changing jobs isn't out of the question, mind.

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blahblahblah1654 · 26/07/2023 14:56

Bootle isn't great either. I'll always remember it as the place little Jamie Bulger was taken from. My husband grew up in Liverpool and also agrees much of Bootle is horrible. Agree with Lark Lane being a nice area to buy a flat if you want to be near pubs, the park etc.