Moving to Liverpool, commuting to London - is it mad?

[YouHaveAnArse]

We are living in London and renting - while we have a good LL who charges a decent rent, the news and the fact that estate agents are charging significantly more for flats in the same building is adding to the massive anxiety I get for six months a year about whether we will be made homeless. We have some family and health things going on at the moment which is further underlining how difficult it is to not be able to properly plan more than a year in advance as you don't know whether you'll have to move, or how difficult it is when you live five hours by train or a nightbus away from somewhere you now have to visit more often.

We can't afford to buy in London, unless it was shared ownership, which I'm not entirely sure is a good option. I don't care about the property ladder or building up equity, I just want to put down some money for a place that will be ours and not have to move again unless we really want to. We don't have or will have kids, we both have jobs which would allow us to move out of the city as long as we can attend our London offices in person once a week or fortnight - colleagues of mine are currently doing this and I've been asking how they've been finding it. And I've lived in London long enough that I would be more than happy getting to know a new city, especially if I feel I'm able to relax a little more on a day to day basis. We want to make a home there rather than the temporary feeling of renting which makes you feel like you can't really get yourself involved in the community and get to know it, even if part of me worries that we're just moving London's unaffordability problem to a different community?

DH is quite keen that any move would be to another city - neither of us drive, I want to live somewhere which has its own thing rather than being a dormitory community of London (plus buying/renting in the traditional commuter belt is not much cheaper, especially when factoring in train costs) both of us want the potential to change jobs rather than keep our current ones if we decide to do so which makes Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds/Sheffield seem like good places to start. I lived in Manchester for a while, but Liverpool looks like a good option - family were from there so I feel a bit of an affinity, it's cheaper to live there, it has a good feeling about it that makes me feel it could be a good place to settle. DH is happy with a similar size flat as the one we rent just now, I would be too, but the leasehold thing makes me wonder if it would effectivley feel like renting with the extra restrictions and potential hikes in cost. I don't have a problem with somewhere needing redecorating or having to plan to replace the kitchen over the next few years etc. but we don't have the skills to do anything major, we'd have to pay other people to do it for us.

I don't even know where to start looking other than 'where's near the station' or which areas are realistically an option to get to the train first thing. I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning. There are lots of houses by Anfield that are well within that but I keep seeing people say it's a dodgy area - I never know what that means given that what people consider 'dodgy areas' near us in SE London are a) ones we're probably priced out of b) seem absolutely fine to me c) often seems code for 'working class' or 'too many chicken shops' - it's more that my experiences of Victorian terraces is that they're generally massively damp that puts me off!

This is a long-term thing to think about whilst we keep adding to our deposit funds, making ourselves look like good people for the bank to lend a load of money to, and dealing with other stuff, but any advice? Thanks and sorry for rambling, I'm just overthinking as usual :)

I lived in Liverpool for a few years and absolutely love the place. I would move back in a heartbeat! Great community spirit, always things to do, good bars and restaurants and a walkable city centre.

The train once a week and a long day wouldn’t bother me much, it’s a fantastic city to live in. It’s not for everyone though, I would go and test out a few places for a week or so.

It absolutely has changed. Check out Grove Park one of the prettiest roads in the city. To teeth has a rep from riots a very long time ago, like Brixton - where I lived happily for many years.

£1k a month to rent a room in Brixton these days - my friend grew up there during the era of the riots and it's unrecogniseable, you'd be more at risk these days of being knocked over by some Josh on his way to the craft beer bar after a shift at Foxton's. I get the impression Toxteth has changed since those days but it's almost street by street in terms of whether it's nice to live there?

1k a month is insane!

The current trend for bidding wars and/or people being expected to pay six or twelve months' rent upfront to secure somewhere to live in London is only going to make it worse, I keep thinking it all has to fall apart somewhere, right?

I stand corrected. I've had a look online and it's definitely up and coming. My husband lived there about 30 years ago and it was rough as anything but that was a long time ago!

Hiya OP! We live in Greater Manchester and husband had a monthly commute to London. We also have family all over the NW/NE. Recently family in Alnwick, Northumberland (which has a direct train to London) has seen a lot of people moving in and keeping their London jobs.

I'd say it's doable, with several caveats:

1. Your schedule is relatively permanent (i.e. your office isn't suddenly going to mandate 3 days a week and you can't find another with the old terms)
2. Your timings work - you can go late/leave early, or have enough money for a hotel!
3. Close to the station

DH's company wouldn't pay the costs - the office day usually involved socialising after work. Train ticket of between £60-£90 plus £60 min hotel costs on top he found prohibitively expensive. There was also a couple of times when electrical lines failed at Milton Keynes and he had to go via Leeds... not fun!

BUT, I think it's worth it if your alternative is renting forever and you value a decent home. You have a decent deposit and can certainly afford to buy (I don't know much about shared ownership) so maybe your weighing up of options is different.

I would never have been able to afford it without moving out. I suppose I could have gotten a flat, but wanted pets (and potentially children! Priorities eh :)
I resented earning and earning only to pay it all in rent for a small flat. I'm minimalist in many ways but really wanted a big kitchen, which was my main issue,

I wouldn't mind taking another job in London - or even abroad (we're a 20 min drive to Manchester airport). Several of my contemporaries have done the same. A woman lived in Knutsford and 'commuted' to Holland for a good few years with kids... we do what we have to do. And being childfree adults you have more flexibility

Have a look at the Liverpool Waters and Wirral Waters websites OP, the 'undesirable' areas some have mentioned are undergoing HUGE long term regeneration projects with a lot of money allocated to developing areas around the river Mersey. On the Birkenhead side, the area is currently not ideal, but has enormous potential, and is walking distance from Hamilton Square station, which is a 7 minute train ride to Lime St station. I think it would be a good investment to buy around one of these areas.

Toxteth is very lovely ! Princes Park. Lots of multicultural places Lodge Lane way.. so close to town. You could look at the redeveloped Welsh streets. Certainly worth considering

I would echo looking at Nottingham. Loads going on and a good tram network. You could also look at derby which also has a direct train to London but it is a much smaller city than Nottingham

Personally, I take no notice of those who are snooty about certain areas. I live in a very undesirable (to others) location and have had no issues other than encountering snobbery. In my experience of being a social worker and living in cities, high crime rate areas don't mean you have a higher risk of random direct crime and you are personally unsafe. In fact, you are more likely to have a random burglary in a desirable area. I feel very safe even walking alone at night in my high crime area. My neighbours are friendly and my 4 bedroom house is affordable at £150k. I expect the people who try to dissuade you from affordable areas they have never lived in are the same people who go to London and only do the tourist attractions and shows. Who never explore the streets, the markets, the independent shops and restaurants, the many parks, canal areas and the multicultural food of each borough. Take the plunge OP. If after exploring the area for a year, you hate it, you can move, or rent it and try another city. Try all the cities. Personally, if I didn't have children and was in your position I would buy a narrowboat.

I would think very carefully about moving so far away as the commute time as well as the cost would be high. A pp mentioned Norwich. It is a lovely city, my home town, but the train journey to London takes around two hours, compared with the journey to and from Birmingham, which is a similar distance to London and has a really good infrastructure with both rail and buses within the city itself. Have you considered Peterborough? The train journey is around an hour each way and it is within easy reach of many other places by rail.

@User3743lll I agree to a point. But Anfield really is to be avoided.

It's absolutely bloody insane if doing it more than once a week.

Not only are the trains regularly fucked, but by the time you add in your travel costs you are unlikely to be saving huge amounts. Plus by the time you have got to the station / from the station you are looking at 3hrs+ each way on a good day.

If you are absolutely set on the idea, consider Warrington town centre (can get train to both Liverpool and Manchester for gigs and town rates high for 'livability') or near the station in Stoke (again options for gigs plus quicker). You need to be ON the main West Coast mainland - Liverpool isn't and Manchester isn't quite as good as the main line to Scotland.

You are also going to find that rental prices in the NW aren't necessarily as low as you might expect. Indeed yesterday I saw a report about how the NW had more people chasing every rental property than any other region - yep including London and the SE. The pressure on the rental market is higher than you might expect.

To get to London before 9am you would have to be leaving at 6.00 from Lime Street. (To give you even fifteen minutes to get to the office). That also means you need time to get to the station - most places you've suggested are 15 mins to 30mins - and you will have to go by car, whether that be taxi or your own. No public transport available at that hour. So a 5am start is realistic. Then do a full day. And then a good 3 and a half hours back to your house. So getting in after 9pm is pretty realistic. Every.Single.Week.

We don't live in Liverpool but DH used to do the commute to London fairly regularly. Fortunately he didn't need to be in for 9am and he stayed over night to break it up a bit. It was bloody hard going.

Honestly. You really need to look at real life travel times, not just how quick the train gets from Liverpool Lime Street to Euston. You are doing a door to door commute not station to station. That makes it significantly harder. And neither centre Liverpool or Manchester are cheap. Not for a nicer area.

A massive reality check is needed BEFORE you decide to go ahead with it.

Good God no....no...no...

Have you considered East London/Essex OP? It's not ideal for travel north but could give you stability and fast/cheaper links into Central and a few places in your budget if you allow the extra for travel costs. I'm from Derby originally and trips home are minimum £72, on the super off peak fares. If you want to see a travelling version of Dantes inferno get the 1st super off peak train out of St Pancras (7.02 I believe) headed for Sheffield

If you like Liverpool and Manchester, check out Warrington. Easy to get to both on public transport but also has frequent trains with a 2hr commute to London Euston.

Agree about being realistic about travel times, it takes longer than you think to get to and from the train especially if you have to get another train or park a car.

Realistically how long does it take to get off the train and walk into your office at King's Cross? It's likely to be a minimum of 5 to 10 minutes unless your office is literally in the station. It all adds up especially if your company considers logging in at 2 minutes past the hour as 'late for work'

And there's all the frequent delays and cancellations to endure because the railway in this country is in such a mess. We have a graduate trainee with us who's currently having to spend time at our HQ a few hours away and goes for the week at a time. Two out of the last 3 train journeys home have been delayed by hours, one time he got home at 2 am, if it had gone smoothly it would have been 9 pm.

But if you can agree to work on the train in exchange for a shorter day in the office that could help?

Also Nottingham might be a good shout- I don't know about the housing situation but if they're like any other city there must be building city flats? Plus there's the newish tram and seems to be a lot of regeneration so could be a good base for city living?

But its much closer than Liverpool and Manchester and has a huge concert arena and prominent smaller venues. I think just about every concert tour plays there.

Also Birmingham? Close to London, well connected, vibrant city centre, short train ride to the NEC, if there's some nice city centre flats at the right price that could be a good shout?

What's your actual budget?

I would consider Leeds as a serious option. I've RTFT but can't see any clarity on your actual budget?

There are plenty of city centre flats in Leeds which are under 30mins to the train station, with a direct 2hr 20 route to King's Cross. I have lots of 30 something child free friends living in the Docks area by the canal and they love it. Leeds City Centre has lots happening and it's well connected by train to other areas if you want to visit friends or family. Worth some consideration.

I looked into it after my divorce but I work in London a couple of days per week and not consecutively. It's expensive and to get into London at say 9/10am equals very early starts

Birmingham is easier - some trains are only 1hr5 from international or even some of the towns on the children line like Warwick lemington spa etc

@User3743lll I really like Hamilton Square, also not far from lots of music venues and the fabulous woodside eatery. Good shout.

I know I mention food alot but I think after living in London where food looks wonderful, I imagine you'd not want nothing but the pound bakery and a rated 2 food standards greasy spoon as your only options 😂

I found this property on the Rightmove Android app and wanted you to see it: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137511818

I love this particular area and flat

Also echo what other people say about budget:

I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning.

I don't think that's a realistic budget for Manchester or Liverpool. Not when look into it properly.

Whilst the NW has a reputation for being considerably cheaper than London for houses, both Liverpool and Manchester have had a big crunch in terms of how cheap they are BUT demand is exceptionally high - and actually there's lots of land lords looking to buy up the lower end of the market because of the high cost of renting ATM. A friend of mine in Manchester owns a few properties - the last couple she's bought have been a struggle to buy because there's so many other interested parties and houses have actually sold before they reach Rightmove due to dodgy backhanders being far more common than they should be.

You can get a one bed flat in central Warrington in walking distance to the station for that price (keep in mind service charges on that though). But that's likely as good as you'll get. There's a couple of two bed terraces in that budget but they are slightly further out - 20 min walk - doable but just adding time to your journey. Is a one bed flat really what you want?

All the talk of Anfield is really missing the detail of how long it will take to get to the station from there. It's 11 mins by car in good traffic (how long is it going to take to park? and are taxis reliable enough in this situation without good cushion of time? Realistically you need at least 30 mins to allow for that) or 45 min walk. Once you start to consider that Anfield looks less attractive.

So yeah 2h 30 from Liverpool plus 30mins plus time from Euston to office as a minimum, with no allowance for delays. Even the earliest train only gets you into Euston for about 8am so not much time to spare if there is a delay - and that train is 5.25 so you would be leaving your house in Anfield just before 5am (how long does it take you to get up in the morning?!) to get to the office for 9am. It's NOT a 2hr 20 commute.

Also I've personally always thought getting to London from Liverpool more of a pain than from Manchester or Warrington due to the rail network itself - the service provision is poorer due to location. You don't connect on from Liverpool nor is it on the main West coast line to Scotland. So there are significantly more trains to and from Manchester and the fares look regularly cheaper. And the first train is earlier.