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Moving to Liverpool, commuting to London - is it mad?

227 replies

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:04

We are living in London and renting - while we have a good LL who charges a decent rent, the news and the fact that estate agents are charging significantly more for flats in the same building is adding to the massive anxiety I get for six months a year about whether we will be made homeless. We have some family and health things going on at the moment which is further underlining how difficult it is to not be able to properly plan more than a year in advance as you don't know whether you'll have to move, or how difficult it is when you live five hours by train or a nightbus away from somewhere you now have to visit more often.

We can't afford to buy in London, unless it was shared ownership, which I'm not entirely sure is a good option. I don't care about the property ladder or building up equity, I just want to put down some money for a place that will be ours and not have to move again unless we really want to. We don't have or will have kids, we both have jobs which would allow us to move out of the city as long as we can attend our London offices in person once a week or fortnight - colleagues of mine are currently doing this and I've been asking how they've been finding it. And I've lived in London long enough that I would be more than happy getting to know a new city, especially if I feel I'm able to relax a little more on a day to day basis. We want to make a home there rather than the temporary feeling of renting which makes you feel like you can't really get yourself involved in the community and get to know it, even if part of me worries that we're just moving London's unaffordability problem to a different community?

DH is quite keen that any move would be to another city - neither of us drive, I want to live somewhere which has its own thing rather than being a dormitory community of London (plus buying/renting in the traditional commuter belt is not much cheaper, especially when factoring in train costs) both of us want the potential to change jobs rather than keep our current ones if we decide to do so which makes Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds/Sheffield seem like good places to start. I lived in Manchester for a while, but Liverpool looks like a good option - family were from there so I feel a bit of an affinity, it's cheaper to live there, it has a good feeling about it that makes me feel it could be a good place to settle. DH is happy with a similar size flat as the one we rent just now, I would be too, but the leasehold thing makes me wonder if it would effectivley feel like renting with the extra restrictions and potential hikes in cost. I don't have a problem with somewhere needing redecorating or having to plan to replace the kitchen over the next few years etc. but we don't have the skills to do anything major, we'd have to pay other people to do it for us.

I don't even know where to start looking other than 'where's near the station' or which areas are realistically an option to get to the train first thing. I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning. There are lots of houses by Anfield that are well within that but I keep seeing people say it's a dodgy area - I never know what that means given that what people consider 'dodgy areas' near us in SE London are a) ones we're probably priced out of b) seem absolutely fine to me c) often seems code for 'working class' or 'too many chicken shops' - it's more that my experiences of Victorian terraces is that they're generally massively damp that puts me off!

This is a long-term thing to think about whilst we keep adding to our deposit funds, making ourselves look like good people for the bank to lend a load of money to, and dealing with other stuff, but any advice? Thanks and sorry for rambling, I'm just overthinking as usual :)

OP posts:
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DanceMumTaxi · 27/07/2023 15:54

I know it’s cheaper up north, but 100k isn’t much at all. I wouldn’t want to live in any part of Liverpool where you could buy for 100k. I’m fairly local to Liverpool (but not in the city) and the places where you can live for 100k often have problems. For example there are flats for sale on great Homer street for 110k, but there was a stabbing there last week and this isn’t a one off thing. There are some small flats for sale on Water street (really quite small). These are city centre, so you can walk to Lime street station. Crosby, where your colleague lives is much nice, but will be way over budget. As for Liverpool as a city, I visit regularly and it’s really got better over time, it’s a great city.

DanceMumTaxi · 27/07/2023 16:07

Actually, having a quick look there are quite a few city centre flats available for under 150k if you could stretch the budget a bit. If you don’t mind a flat, I do think you’d get better off in the city than somewhere like Anfield of Princes Park.

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 16:08

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/07/2023 15:53

Yeah, I think Princes Road (the property linked to above) is due a massive resurgence actually. For many years it was run down, full of not very nice HMOs. When I used to occasionally have to walk home from town at 2am after clubbing, many of the taxi drivers wouldn't stop along there for you even if they had their lights on. But they've recently done a cycle path all along there. Princes Park is close by for green space. It's an easy run to town on the bus or bike, or even walkable.

If the flats are refurbished really well, as happened with lots of the properties around Sefton Park, then it could potentially become a very desirable area. It's not got too many local shops and restaurants, though, which is a downside. You'd have to go into town for that.

Yeah it’s a really nice road. I remember about 10 years ago it was a bit more studenty feeling (although don’t think it was a particularly popular area for students). And a couple of years back quite a few flats seemed to be auctioned off. I guess a lot of those were flipped.

The actual building stock is lovely. If you walk up one of the roads towards granby there’s also a great supermarket, and Lark Lane is just the other side of the park.

I don’t live there but I honestly think it’s one of the nicest streets in liverpool.

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 16:13

DanceMumTaxi · 27/07/2023 16:07

Actually, having a quick look there are quite a few city centre flats available for under 150k if you could stretch the budget a bit. If you don’t mind a flat, I do think you’d get better off in the city than somewhere like Anfield of Princes Park.

Anfield and Princes Park are in no way comparable!

The area surrounding Princes Park is v nice and feels a lot like London – really beautiful houses and (not necessarily like London) a nice community.

FuckNuggets · 27/07/2023 16:17

Avoid Anfield at all costs OP. It's not a nice place to live. I live about 10 minutes drive away in a not very good area, but even I would never move there. This is a 3 bed in Old Swan which whilst not a fantastic area, is miles better than Anfield and full of shops and good bus links to the city centre. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135159668#/?channel=RES_BUY

Check out this 3 bedroom terraced house for sale on Rightmove

3 bedroom terraced house for sale in Bowley Road, Liverpool, Merseyside, L13 for £100,000. Marketed by Entwistle Green, Old Swan

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135159668#/?channel=RES_BUY

Southwest12 · 27/07/2023 16:17

I moved from London (Plumstead Common) to Liverpool (Waterloo, which we call Crosby when we want to appear posh!) 7 years ago and have not missed London at all. The local area is full of independent shops, I buy my meat and fish from a family owned butcher (and discuss Lego with them!). There's new cafés and restaurants opening all the time, I reckon you could go out for dinner every day for a month to a different place every day and not have to walk further than 15 minutes. The city centre has everything you could want, and is walkable, and Merseyrail are a lot better than say Southestern.

It's 15/20 minutes in a cab to Lime Street. I can fall out of bed an hour before the train, shower, get dressed and still have time to buy a coffee at the station. The early morning trains are less busy than they used to be (in standard premium and first anyway) and you can get really cheap upgrades to first with seat frog.

You definitely need more than £150k even for Waterloo. My house has increased in price by £100k since I moved in. My friends brought in Orrell Park last year, think they paid about £150k for a 2 bed. Not sure what the prices are like now.

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 16:25

FuckNuggets · 27/07/2023 16:17

Avoid Anfield at all costs OP. It's not a nice place to live. I live about 10 minutes drive away in a not very good area, but even I would never move there. This is a 3 bed in Old Swan which whilst not a fantastic area, is miles better than Anfield and full of shops and good bus links to the city centre. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135159668#/?channel=RES_BUY

I saw some amazing properties in Old Swan within the OP’s budget just a couple of years back.

The area wasn’t my cup of tea (not awful but just not much happening), but some of the properties were spectacular for the price.

DeathMetalMum · 27/07/2023 17:11

Haven't RTFT but making a suggestion of Sheffield. It's two hours on the train nfrom London and fairly cheap tickets compared to Manchester.

Great for gigs, large arena and several smaller venues and easy to travel to Manchester/Leeds/Liverpool/Nottingham most bands will play at least one of the five places. You should be able to get a one/two bed flat close to city centre for your budget or a slightly bit more.

whirlyhead · 28/07/2023 09:34

I moved from london to manchester 20 years ago and still regret it. I just don't like manchester.

OP, have you considered south London? Petts Wood and around there used to be quite reasonably priced when I lived down south and the trains into London bridge were fast and regular.

Gadooza · 28/07/2023 10:07

whirlyhead · 28/07/2023 09:34

I moved from london to manchester 20 years ago and still regret it. I just don't like manchester.

OP, have you considered south London? Petts Wood and around there used to be quite reasonably priced when I lived down south and the trains into London bridge were fast and regular.

I lived in Manchester for a bit and didn’t rate it either – just always found something a bit grim about it. Have lived in loads of cities and it was the only one I never massively warmed to. Would you consider a move?!

whirlyhead · 28/07/2023 10:25

Gadooza · 28/07/2023 10:07

I lived in Manchester for a bit and didn’t rate it either – just always found something a bit grim about it. Have lived in loads of cities and it was the only one I never massively warmed to. Would you consider a move?!

I am in the process of moving at present to Europe! I hope never to see Manchester again!! It is indeed grim and quite dirty.

PomTiddlyPom · 28/07/2023 13:24

whirlyhead · 28/07/2023 10:25

I am in the process of moving at present to Europe! I hope never to see Manchester again!! It is indeed grim and quite dirty.

The comparison to 'Europe' really is amusing. Have you never been to Paris, Rome, Brussels...? The last of which I just returned from and was surprised to see just how rundown the supposed 'EU capital' was.
Not to mention it is the only place where my friends and I got catcalled every single night on the way home from bars... 'Chinois!', 'Thailande' and all their amazing guesses at our nationalities.

Manchester's cleanliness is about the same as many buzzy parts of London such as Shoreditch , Covent Garden, etc. The only difference is that London is massive and has swallowed up so many surrounding areas it is inaccurate to comment on 'London'.

A more accurate comparison would be Greater Manchester, which has everything from lovely, 'naice' suburbs to very rundown areas. If you live in somewhere with easy accessibility to both (say, Warrington) then they are both within your radius

YouHaveAnArse · 28/07/2023 13:57

I haven't been to Paris for a few years but people do tend to think of it as a pretty stage set and then arrive and are shocked that, well, it's a big city with all the same problems and downsides of any other.

Visible homelessness has increased a hell of a lot in London over the past five years - I would never have expected to see tents set up on places like Oxford St or Piccadilly, if only because I assumed the council would swiftly move people on because it looks bad for tourists. (I am just about old enough to remember 'cardboard city' on the news, IIRC it was confined to a specific area?) It was looking like Paris was going that way when I was there in 2018, but I suspect worse now.

Vancouver is one of the most expensive and desireable places to live in North America, but the Downtown Eastside would have you thinking otherwise. I've never seen anything close to that in Manchester, and I lived there before they redid Piccadilly Gardens.

OP posts:
Gadooza · 28/07/2023 14:44

PomTiddlyPom · 28/07/2023 13:24

The comparison to 'Europe' really is amusing. Have you never been to Paris, Rome, Brussels...? The last of which I just returned from and was surprised to see just how rundown the supposed 'EU capital' was.
Not to mention it is the only place where my friends and I got catcalled every single night on the way home from bars... 'Chinois!', 'Thailande' and all their amazing guesses at our nationalities.

Manchester's cleanliness is about the same as many buzzy parts of London such as Shoreditch , Covent Garden, etc. The only difference is that London is massive and has swallowed up so many surrounding areas it is inaccurate to comment on 'London'.

A more accurate comparison would be Greater Manchester, which has everything from lovely, 'naice' suburbs to very rundown areas. If you live in somewhere with easy accessibility to both (say, Warrington) then they are both within your radius

It’s not the dirtiness it’s just the overall vibe – I lived in one of the most expensive suburbs in Manchester, and was referring to the city – centre and outskirts combined – as a whole.

Personally I find the overall vibe in Manchester just a bit grim, and I’ve lived in dirtier places that were more charming.

Gadooza · 28/07/2023 14:49

YouHaveAnArse · 28/07/2023 13:57

I haven't been to Paris for a few years but people do tend to think of it as a pretty stage set and then arrive and are shocked that, well, it's a big city with all the same problems and downsides of any other.

Visible homelessness has increased a hell of a lot in London over the past five years - I would never have expected to see tents set up on places like Oxford St or Piccadilly, if only because I assumed the council would swiftly move people on because it looks bad for tourists. (I am just about old enough to remember 'cardboard city' on the news, IIRC it was confined to a specific area?) It was looking like Paris was going that way when I was there in 2018, but I suspect worse now.

Vancouver is one of the most expensive and desireable places to live in North America, but the Downtown Eastside would have you thinking otherwise. I've never seen anything close to that in Manchester, and I lived there before they redid Piccadilly Gardens.

I lived between Germany and the UK between 2010 and 2018 and you could see a very stark decline during that time – particularly with regard to visible homelessness.

There was also a palpable bitterness and lack of optimism by comparison with DE – again, that seemed to grow over the decade.

Those changes were more striking when you left and came back after a period away.

PomTiddlyPom · 28/07/2023 17:09

Gadooza · 28/07/2023 14:44

It’s not the dirtiness it’s just the overall vibe – I lived in one of the most expensive suburbs in Manchester, and was referring to the city – centre and outskirts combined – as a whole.

Personally I find the overall vibe in Manchester just a bit grim, and I’ve lived in dirtier places that were more charming.

I'm not sure how long ago you lived there, or what your definition of 'outskirts' are but Greater Manchester is huge. Currently it stretches as far as Wigan, and includes picturesque villages-y places like Saddleworth. While of course you are entitled to feel however you want it, a bit like how London consists of too many different areas to impose an overall judgement on, unless you have travelled extensively within it.

It also depends on your starting point. Assuming you want to be within commute distance of a major city there's a wealth of areas that are not Greater Manchester. Large parts of Cheshire (Macclesfield has a direct train to London) for instance.

FWIW I don't think people have to explain all their opinions - I massively dislike Coventry (and even Leamington Spa although it's outwardly nice). Don't know why.

But I was rather surprised, moving down from London, to realise just how much diversity is in the areas surrounding Manchester and Liverpool. I did think it would be a compact city, and then all much of a muchness. But I was wrong!

Gadooza · 28/07/2023 17:29

PomTiddlyPom · 28/07/2023 17:09

I'm not sure how long ago you lived there, or what your definition of 'outskirts' are but Greater Manchester is huge. Currently it stretches as far as Wigan, and includes picturesque villages-y places like Saddleworth. While of course you are entitled to feel however you want it, a bit like how London consists of too many different areas to impose an overall judgement on, unless you have travelled extensively within it.

It also depends on your starting point. Assuming you want to be within commute distance of a major city there's a wealth of areas that are not Greater Manchester. Large parts of Cheshire (Macclesfield has a direct train to London) for instance.

FWIW I don't think people have to explain all their opinions - I massively dislike Coventry (and even Leamington Spa although it's outwardly nice). Don't know why.

But I was rather surprised, moving down from London, to realise just how much diversity is in the areas surrounding Manchester and Liverpool. I did think it would be a compact city, and then all much of a muchness. But I was wrong!

Coventry’s horrible too 😂😂 no explanation needed

I’ve lived in Yorkshire, Manchester, Calder and Merseyside and they’re all completely different.

Liverpool and Manchester have totally vibes.

There’s definitely variation across Manchester – of course! but without writing an essay about it, generally speaking, as an individual, I don’t rate the place massively. Not talking about villages in the Greater Manchester county region, talking about Manchester city centre and its suburbs. I’m more familiar with south manchester - sale, urmston, didsbury, chorlton, whalley range, hulme, fallowfield, moss side, levenshulme, longsight, withington, etc. They’re different but yet all have a Manchester-ness about them. It was ok, just not the most inspiring place I’ve lived, personally. Others may feel differently!

Liverpool on the other hand I really like.

Finallybreathe · 29/07/2023 09:18

I would definitely consider Birmingham. You have three train options (Avanti, Chiltern and West Midlands Trains, albeit the last two are much slower but cheaper). Chiltern walk up fares are £36 and takes just under two hours from Birmingham Moor Street to Marylebone.

Movinghouseatlast · 29/07/2023 10:19

I think you absolutely have to do this now, before you are too old. The thought iof renting in your 60's when you could have bought something....

I commuted to Amsterdam for nearly 4 years one day a week and although the travel is boring you do get used to it.

On 80k between you surely you could get a higher mortgage than you are looking at? It sounds to me that you are trying for the totally safe option. As long as you do your research and stress test your mortgage payments against various interest rate rises I would push the budget a bit.

I can't help with Liverpool, but Manchester and Sheffield I know well. I'd choose Manchester every time- it's so vibrant these days.

Gloschick · 29/07/2023 11:36

I would look at buying in a town but by a mainline railway station. Your budget isn't big enough for the city living you are after and you will end up in a city suburb.

As an example, you can afford to buy a place near Chipppenham station. You are in the middle of a town not reliant on a car to go to shops etc and you are only 15 min train journey into Bath, 30 mins to Bristol and 1hr 15 to London so see your friends / a show.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134076200#/?channel=RES_BUY

Check out this 2 bedroom apartment for sale on Rightmove

2 bedroom apartment for sale in Betchamen House, St. Mary Street, Chippenham, SN15 for £160,000. Marketed by Atwell Martin, Chippenham

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134076200#/?channel=RES_BUY

Gloschick · 29/07/2023 11:38

Also there are lots of cladding issues for apartments in Liverpool, so be careful.

Gadooza · 29/07/2023 12:14

Gloschick · 29/07/2023 11:38

Also there are lots of cladding issues for apartments in Liverpool, so be careful.

OP could buy a house within 5 minutes walk of the anglican cathedral and well within her budget.

Agree the Chippenham suggestion does sound good – I’ve had longer daily commutes (each way) than this!

bravotango · 29/07/2023 12:51

If you only need one bedroom there are tons of flats on Princes Avenue that come up all the time and are well under budget, in the region of 80-90k - walkable to town/Georgian Quarter/public transport. I wouldn't underestimate how shite the train service down to London is though - it's incredibly expensive and just not great. Much better train service from Birmingham/Manchester. I'm a Londoner who's been in Lpool for 10+ years now and for your budget/wants would suggest a flat around Princes Park/Ullet Road if you can find one!

Cassimin · 29/07/2023 16:21

I’m in Liverpool and if you’ve got £100k you’re not going to get much for that.
My kids are looking at the moment and £200 realistically is what you need.
The north of the city is not very desirable, the cheaper properties in the south are often owned by landlords who cram as many students in as possible.
Around Lark lane ( L17)have nice flats. Mostly in the large old shipping owners houses.
Lark lane is very vibrant, full of bars/ restaurants and it’s positioned right by Sefton park.
L8, is ok, some nice small houses off park road. ( the holy land and bread houses)
L15 is not expensive but very studenty( parties/ rubbish in streets)
Parts of Garston (L19) are ok and are close to south parkway station.
These are the places I have recommended to my kids.

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