Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

Indeed. My family had a farm for generations in Cornwall, but it was sold as land by my great grandfather . Family then moved to London. I stayed at the farm as a very young child and do feel a connection to Cornwall.

However I am a poor person myself, grew up in London. And whilst my father and siblings benefitted from a council property, but full scholarships to private schools, I didn't. I went to a crap comp, had to get a MW job at 16 as my fathers business tanked. There was bo option for a council house unless I become pregnant / single mother asap. I didn't choose this route and it's been hard, because there maybe a bus, but you still have to be able to afford it and have the time and ability. I have had to move out from London to be able to afford to live. I have no support network as older family are still in London. I'm 100 miles away.

Growing up in London is a massive advantage in life, IMO.

Your opinion unfortunately different from reality though wish you were right.

London has highest homelessness including 80,000 children in homeless temp, & highest young people unemployment in UK.

Where is advantage please?

If you think big massive advantage in London, then move there so your kids get the big advantage you think there is.

@nosafeguardingadults

"Where is advantage please?"

++++

The advantage is that if you grow up poor in London then you have a much better chance of improving your circumstances in life (ie social mobility) than if you grow up in the Sourh West and in particular Cornwall . As can seen in the link and chart:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/496103/SociallMobilityIndex.pdf

@pixie5121, I'm not in need of your sympathy or condescension, thank you. Nor any Brexit nonsense. I am not seeking sympathy or help. I would like, quite simply, a floor on the value of properties sold to non residents or a cap on the number of weeks per year properties can left unoccupied without a tax penalty, in tourist areas.

People with six figure salaries voting against their own best interests because they're thinking of the bigger picture rather than not seeing past the end of their noses.

Lots of wealthy people in London do vote for Tory though. Richmond, K&C although granted a shock to lose Wandsworth & Westminster

Absolutely younger people & migrants more likely to vote labour

No good opportunities if one of the loads of London homeless sent 100s of miles away from London or one of 80,000 children in London homeless temp.

Housing social housing 10-15 year waits in London. Lots not even allowed on list including priority people.
When was in refuge looked at lots of places in UK. Cornwall DV victims allowed on housing list and get housed. London lots not even allowed on list and 2-5 years in slum temp often outside London or 12 month private often 100s miles out of London.

Don't know how to do the links cos phone but easy for any person here looking up reality links data stuff.

Homelessness London massively worse than anywhere else in UK. Biggest amount massively way more than anywhere else. Is fact and easy to look up links data stuff.

Other thing easy to look up is young people unemployment. Biggest amount in whole UK is in London.

People lying easier opportunities in London easy solution isn't there if you believe your lies.

Move to London if you think so good opportunities for your kids.

Cornwall social housing not as long as 10-15 year waits and also all Cornish people allowed on lists. London councils years wait but don't even let lots on the lists.

Scottish islands some no waits at all. I know cos looked when was in refuge. Couldn't apply cos too worried about people being like on thread, being ignorant pitchfork people.

Where is good opportunities for London homeless, biggest homeless in UK, in slum temp for years or sent 100s of miles out of London. Some sent as far as Bradford.

Where was good opportunities for Londoners killed in Grenfell.

Where is opportunities if young Londoners have highest young people unemployment in UK?

Found doing links think but don't know if done properly. Easy to look up what I linked of link doesn't work how I done it.

Says London unemployment consistently higher than rest of England so sorry maybe don't know if worse than Scotland but definitely worse than Cornwall.

www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/unemployment-rate-over-time

Homelessness London massively worse than anywhere else. Cornwall and other rural places not even second. Next worse after London is Luton, Brighton, Manchester, and Birmingham so cities and towns worse than rural.

england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/274000_people_in_england_are_homeless_with_thousands_more_likely_to_lose_their_homes

Good opportunities in London if you want to be homeless or unemployed.

@pixie5121 sure, of course, but all my siblings and cousins in cornwall earn salaries and own their own homes too. They're public sector, like me- maybe they can't live in their first choice area but neither can anyone I know in London.

There's often this perception that everyone in London earns zillions. But broadly I agree with your point, yes (and yesterday we've seen even more Londoners vote for more redistribution).

Cornwall council is a total bust.

Yes our local area is pissed off because it wont get any of the levelling up funding (doubtful Cornwall will get any) and that the 130m promised over the next few years is nothing like the objective 1 funding Cornwall used to get.

But it sounds like a lot of leave voters are quite well off/toward the end of their lives so don't give a shit.... not to mention supporting Putin in his aim to destabilise Europe.

London where I live definitely has more opportunities, jobs and better state schools. It is more of a meritocracy. That is not the case in rural Cornwall or Northumberland. London has more jobs eg my son had no problem getting a full time PAYE job as a postman and then a food delivery driver - they are always crying out for people to do both those jobs. I have never in my adult life seen so many places in the SE with vacancies - it is nothing like 1982 when I graduated in the North, then we had the worst unemployment (3m) then for fifty years.

I don't think Brexit supporters support Putin. I voted remain as did all our family but half the country was on the other side and plenty of them are very bright. The unpleasant comments about different people from one side from particularly the Labour party is one reason it has not won a general election since 2005. My London borough moved (unusually) from Labour to Tory yesterday which is good news for me although that is certainly against the trend in this mid term period as happens with all governments.

It would certainly be worth people moving from poor areas to those with more money as I did. Sometimes you have to take a risk in life.

xenia is wealthy

hope you don't mind me saying that 🤭

@longhy my borough is Barnet and there are plenty of wealthy people in my borough..they pay higher council tax and definitely have not benefitted from Barnet council outsourcing all its local services. Hence the move to labour.

I was just offering an explanation as to why Xenia felt it was good news for her. There may be other reasons though.

Out of interest how do you know the real ownership of those properties? In my youngest sibling's village they have "outsiders" buying properties to live in just like anywhere else. They also have properties sold off to be ABnBs, apparently to outsiders. The other area I'm connected to has a similar pattern.

In fact many of those properties were ultimately owned by shell companies rather than the apparent individuals. The shell companies being part of the property portfolios of local landowners. The incredible thing (to me) was that even after this was made known in his village all the talk was still of Londoners taking "their" houses. My sibling wasn't remotely surprised.

Local government has it in its power to do quite a bit around taxation and usage on this type of property and yet local voters keep returning the same party/local big names each time whilst expecting change and blaming outsiders for all their ills.

What will you do with the property you may inherit? Will you refuse to sell outside the area or max out the price? (FWIW I'm in a comparable situation).

The OP (who seems to have lit the touch paper and buggered off) actually wasn't talking about second homes in their post. They think simply being born in a place gives her and her descendants a god given right to the place in perpetuity. It doesn't and never has. It has always been the case that to progress you may have to move.

The community I grew up in was destroyed by the likes of the OP's lords and masters snapping up city property for their pied a terres whilst they were busily converting their staff in the country to "self employed" and those tied cottages into the contemporary version of ABnB.

Its always seductive to blame "others", it saves looking closer to home.

A key reason education improved in London was that ordinary people voted for and paid local taxes for the expenditure (and in most parts of London they still do). Its not the golden ticket some posters on this thread would have you think but as a WC minority child in London you do benefit from a community willing to put money into services.

That doesn't eliminate the widespread poverty, especially after a decade or more of "austerity and self reliance" which has seen social mobility fall and the gap between wealth and poverty expand all across the country. Poverty in London communities is a common driver of people leaving, forced out by lack of affordable housing. Sound familiar?

Most of the West Country votes for the party of cuts and "self reliance", or more accurately the representatives of the local "big" families (its much the same thing in the areas I know).