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Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

516 replies

GraceJonesBiggestFan · 04/05/2022 09:59

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

OP posts:
C8H10N4O2 · 07/05/2022 10:23

NOTANUM · 06/05/2022 20:33

I can assure you that bankers are not wandering into your average London’ secondary school @Xenia

Maybe a handful near the City or independent schools but that’s about it.

I agree. I'm one of those "poor kids made good" who goes into schools and most of this type of activity happens where the speaker has some kind of personal or business connection with the school.

The elite grammars and independents have a steady stream of speakers but poorer area schools without a pipeline to Oxbridge find it harder to attract them. Those of us who go to the latter type are in short supply against the sheer number of schools.

rainingsnoring · 07/05/2022 10:39

@GraceJonesBiggestFan - great post and such an important topic. My opinion is that there should have been policies introduced decades ago to reduce this but the country is very London centric. People just shrug and says 'that's Capitalism for you'. Lots of repercussions from 40 years of Neo liberal policy are about to hit us like a massive earthquake.

woodhill · 07/05/2022 10:46

Xenia · 07/05/2022 07:50

London where I live definitely has more opportunities, jobs and better state schools. It is more of a meritocracy. That is not the case in rural Cornwall or Northumberland. London has more jobs eg my son had no problem getting a full time PAYE job as a postman and then a food delivery driver - they are always crying out for people to do both those jobs. I have never in my adult life seen so many places in the SE with vacancies - it is nothing like 1982 when I graduated in the North, then we had the worst unemployment (3m) then for fifty years.

I don't think Brexit supporters support Putin. I voted remain as did all our family but half the country was on the other side and plenty of them are very bright. The unpleasant comments about different people from one side from particularly the Labour party is one reason it has not won a general election since 2005. My London borough moved (unusually) from Labour to Tory yesterday which is good news for me although that is certainly against the trend in this mid term period as happens with all governments.

It would certainly be worth people moving from poor areas to those with more money as I did. Sometimes you have to take a risk in life.

Wasn't your council bankrupted under Labour, Xenia
Along with Croydon and Slough so who can blame people for not wanting them running it any longer

We have good local services under our council with bins emptied weekly and well stocked libraries

Ferngreen · 07/05/2022 10:57

How can anyone compare London to Cornwall. Isn't the pop of greater london 18million or thereabouts?
Mrs Thatcher decided the UK should move from heavy industries to financial and service industries. It happens that those industries were in London, hence London businesses tax payments to the Gov financed the whole country - unfortunately with a big bias to London, which means it has amazing transport and the rest have poor.
Unfortunately the bankers etc were v greedy and we ended up with the crash in 2008. So I suspect we then weren't doing as well as we were. Also had the money been better shared over the country we wouldn't have had Brexit.
It is annoying that people buy up nice big properties in attractive areas (that locals can't afford) then they sit empty half the year. This applies to London as well as Cornwall. Also places like Edinburgh where all your neighbours can become airbnb users.
What I don't see is how you change it. Unless teh Gov taxed it somehow - second homes. They might be forced to in a recession. Or a slump in house prices, that should make changes.

Xenia · 07/05/2022 11:50

East end of London type areas close to the City do have a lot of City professional volunteering to help schools as it is very very close to their work (City of London is close to some areas of big deprivation). I believe London state schools' exam results went right up after that kind and other efforts were put into them which did not happen eg in state schools such as in the NE here I am from which are 100% comprehensives (grammars went where I am from in 1970).

However I agree it is a complex comparison - the opportunities in London with MPs on your door step loads of chances, vast numbers of part time jobs, shortage of workers compared with Cornwall (or Northumberland).

We have more beds in sheds in my London borough than any in London and are packed to the gills so not the same issue as in Cornwall with holiday homes. However we are certainly bursting at the seams where I am probably because there are jobs and we are cheaper where I am than inner London (unless that is not an issue because you are being housed by the state in a London hotel - Crowne Plaza no less with every room having an en suite I see for some of our newest illegal arrivals yesterday - at least someone is living in style for no charge!)

pixie5121 · 07/05/2022 11:53

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

woodhill · 07/05/2022 11:55

I'm sure Xenia doesn't but it is becoming unsustainable

pixie5121 · 07/05/2022 12:01

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

BonjourCrisette · 07/05/2022 12:08

Hear hear, @pixie5121

Disgusting attitude from @Xenia - she should be ashamed of herself.

ReadyToMoveIt · 07/05/2022 12:10

our newest illegals

🤦🏻‍♀️

woodhill · 07/05/2022 12:13

How about the government actually helping the people already living here in the first place with affordable housing and crippling energy prices

We may be rich collectively but it's not trickling down to the younger generations who need help with housing and have huge student loans

ReadyToMoveIt · 07/05/2022 12:15

woodhill · 07/05/2022 12:13

How about the government actually helping the people already living here in the first place with affordable housing and crippling energy prices

We may be rich collectively but it's not trickling down to the younger generations who need help with housing and have huge student loans

Yeah, fuck the ones fleeing war eh, they can sort themselves out.

woodhill · 07/05/2022 12:17

We could do both?

pixie5121 · 07/05/2022 12:31

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

rainingsnoring · 07/05/2022 12:41

@Xenia 'I see for some of our newest illegal arrivals yesterday - at least someone is living in style for no charge!)'
What a disgusting thing to say.

Xenia · 07/05/2022 14:57

However it is accurate. It is certainly disgusting hard working tax payers some of whom I saw queuing at food bank this morning are paying over £4.7m a week on hotels a loan according to the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60249130 and yesterday one boat load did apparently get luxury coaches to their free rooms in the Crowne Plaza, Heathrow.

www.arabnews.com/node/2029156/amp
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/18/home-office-ordered-to-move-torture-victim-out-of-prison-like-hotel
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10791247/The-Mail-tracks-group-migrants-ushered-UK-four-star-West-London-hotel.html
www.thesun.co.uk/news/14038157/migrants-covid-jab-crowne-plaza-hotel/

BonjourCrisette · 07/05/2022 15:56

Xenia · 07/05/2022 14:57

However it is accurate. It is certainly disgusting hard working tax payers some of whom I saw queuing at food bank this morning are paying over £4.7m a week on hotels a loan according to the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60249130 and yesterday one boat load did apparently get luxury coaches to their free rooms in the Crowne Plaza, Heathrow.

www.arabnews.com/node/2029156/amp
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/18/home-office-ordered-to-move-torture-victim-out-of-prison-like-hotel
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10791247/The-Mail-tracks-group-migrants-ushered-UK-four-star-West-London-hotel.html
www.thesun.co.uk/news/14038157/migrants-covid-jab-crowne-plaza-hotel/

The more you continue, the viler you sound. Absolutely disgusting.

And you obviously have not read the Guardian article you linked to at all since it is very clearly pointing out that the conditions at this hotel are extremely unpleasant. Very poor attention to detail from someone who is supposedly a lawyer.

As a hardworking tax payer, I am far more disgusted by you than by any asylum seeker.

ReadyToMoveIt · 07/05/2022 16:01

Yeah, the ‘prison like’ hotel certainly sounds luxurious Hmm

bellac11 · 07/05/2022 16:23

Whats a 'luxury coach'

Does it have a swimming pool and cocktail lounge on board? Free slippers?

Alexandra2001 · 07/05/2022 16:29

@Xenia Shouldn't your fury be directed at your Govt, who wasted 10s of billions on trac n trace, out of date and unsuitable PPE ? oh and fraudulent claims made under business support loans, now written off?

Shouldn't you also be so disgusted at a Govt that has seen the growth of food banks increase 1000% under their economic stewardship and having to be used not only by the poor and destitute few but by people who work full time.

ReadyToMoveIt · 07/05/2022 16:36

bellac11 · 07/05/2022 16:23

Whats a 'luxury coach'

Does it have a swimming pool and cocktail lounge on board? Free slippers?

Probably one with seats and windows. No doubt @Xenia would prefer they be transported by cattle trailer.

Asperia · 07/05/2022 19:10

Surely the incomers/ second home owners can only buy these Cornish houses because their Cornish owners are keen to take their cash? Are the vendors as much to blame as the buyers?

pixie5121 · 07/05/2022 19:23

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

XingMing · 07/05/2022 20:35

Oh la la, xenia has decapitated the thread.

1dayatatime · 07/05/2022 22:59

Asperia · 07/05/2022 19:10

Surely the incomers/ second home owners can only buy these Cornish houses because their Cornish owners are keen to take their cash? Are the vendors as much to blame as the buyers?

Think this through. If the existing Cornish home owner is moving house then because the price of the new home is so high they need to sell their existing property for the best price possible. The only way this would work is if f everyone in the chain is willing to sell at a discount to a local person which is impractical (define what is a local person?) and is just never going to work.

Also if a house comes up for sale following a family death then legally has to be sold for the best price for the beneficiaries.

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