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Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

516 replies

GraceJonesBiggestFan · 04/05/2022 09:59

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

OP posts:
1dayatatime · 07/05/2022 23:16

I think the simplest solution here to the problem of second homes and Airbnb is planning law. It would also address the issue of second homes / holiday homes and Airbnb registering as Limited companies and thereby avoiding paying council .

So let's say I wish to change the use of my house from a residential home to that of a business for example a bakery or perfume business then legally I need to apply for planning permission for change of use from residential to business.

On this basis I believe that if a residential home in Cornwall is sold to a buyer looking to use it as a holiday home / Airbnb then the buyer ought to (but under current law does not need to) apply for planning permission for a change of use from residential to holiday business.

This is especially so if the holiday home / second home / Airbnb is set up as a Limited company. I mean you can't have it both ways that "Oh I shouldn't have apply for change of use permission to a business because it's a home" but then equally "oh I'm registering it as a business to avoid the council tax that is levied on homes."

The local government in Cornwall with one eye on their local electorate can then decide whether to grant that change of use permission to a business or not. Owners found to be running a business from a home without permission could then be fined / served with an enforcement order.

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 00:44

Found another fact for people who are lying or ignorant saying better in London when reality is worse place to be poor and vulnerable. Phone can't work out not posting link but copied pasted and look up article. It's msn.com news from today on msn website.

average personal wealth in London is lower than it is in southern England.

A higher proportion of Londoners live in poverty than in any other part of the UK.

London consistently contributes more to the state in tax payments than it receives in public spending. Far from existing separately, it subsidises the country.

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 00:50

So London more poor people than rest of UK and like what I posted yesterday more homelessness very extreme homelessness than rest of UK.

Think with the refugees is bit bad if hotel in London cos domestic violence and other homeless literally told go away so homeless or put in very bad slums for years or sent far away 100s of miles

So think refugees should be helped but why the place with more homeless than anywhere else. Maybe can be housed in the empty holiday lets and airbnbs in Cornwall instead. People complaining they left empty so be good if used to help people who fleeing war and can become part of community.

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 00:59

Think maybe bad idea for refugees in Cornwall though if they have bad attitudes from pitchfork locals. Maybe better if somewhere not so pitchfork but maybe Cornish will be nicer if it's refugees fleeing war? You hate second home people so not same as refugees. They not second home people and will be fulltime community members.

pe London can still help some too but very bad if London also not housing the massive homelessness already in London. Not saying instead of refugees but very bad that vulnerable London homeless left homeless or sent 100s miles away.

pixie5121 · 08/05/2022 08:01

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

FoodBankVol · 08/05/2022 08:17

1dayatatime · 07/05/2022 23:16

I think the simplest solution here to the problem of second homes and Airbnb is planning law. It would also address the issue of second homes / holiday homes and Airbnb registering as Limited companies and thereby avoiding paying council .

So let's say I wish to change the use of my house from a residential home to that of a business for example a bakery or perfume business then legally I need to apply for planning permission for change of use from residential to business.

On this basis I believe that if a residential home in Cornwall is sold to a buyer looking to use it as a holiday home / Airbnb then the buyer ought to (but under current law does not need to) apply for planning permission for a change of use from residential to holiday business.

This is especially so if the holiday home / second home / Airbnb is set up as a Limited company. I mean you can't have it both ways that "Oh I shouldn't have apply for change of use permission to a business because it's a home" but then equally "oh I'm registering it as a business to avoid the council tax that is levied on homes."

The local government in Cornwall with one eye on their local electorate can then decide whether to grant that change of use permission to a business or not. Owners found to be running a business from a home without permission could then be fined / served with an enforcement order.

I agree that it could be managed this way, and it is why we have a planning system - to ensure that the right development happens in the right place at the right time, benefitting communities and the economy. The current situation is too much of the wrong kind of development in the wrong places.

Subbaxeo · 08/05/2022 09:32

What a post. Illuminating and thoughtful and everyone slagging off poorer people should read it. I just wish people realised how much easier it is for people with access to all that you have described to achieve and be ambitious.

Elsie2022 · 08/05/2022 09:49

@nosafeguardingadults it is obvious why there is higher percentage of poorer people in London Vs the home counties. I was talking to my cleaner; she moved to Kent but found it was more.expensive overall than living in Harrow due to transport costs..her rent in London is £1400, £400 higher than my mortgage so you can imagine how much the costs of transport from Kent to central London can add up....richer people can make a lifestyle decision to move to the home counties for a bigger house /garden even if the added transport costs is more than any savings on rent/mortgage..however for poorer people, every penny counts so if a poor person has a job in London (and also relies on that job due to having no buffer; unlike a richer person who could possibly set up a business or work remotely and move to a cheaper location as a result), the best place to live is inner city (where you can walk or take a £1.65 bus to work) or the outer zones of London.. yes the accomodation in London will be smaller but it is overall cheaper.

Even as a relatively average person, I am also not in a position where I can regard commuting costs as a negligible expense which is why I chose to buy in zone 3 as I would be considerably poorer if I lived in the south and had to commute. Different story if you earn £200k as a couple...

1dayatatime · 08/05/2022 11:13

Whilst there are clearly areas of wealth and of poverty in both London and Cornwall. Cornwall is the second poorest region in the UK.

It's also shocking to see that 9 out of the 10 poorest regions in Europe are in the UK demonstrating the high level of inequality in the UK compared to mainlyEurope.

It's insane that Cornwall overwhelming voted for Brexit, it's effectively voting to become poorer.
If Cornwall thinks that they will get more help and funding from Boris and the Conservatives than they did from the EU then they are going to be somewhat disappointed.

Inequality in Devon and Cornwall
Onlyrainbows · 08/05/2022 14:35

Hawai'i has similar issues Article

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 17:08

Elsie, link article says London highest proportion of poverty in whole of UK. Not just v home counties.

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 17:12

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request.

Then big problem if that's true. Why should Cornish be allowed to behave like that? Shouldn't be so nasty to people not from there. Why are they allowed to be like that. They maybe own their house but don't own the land outside.

nosafeguardingadults · 08/05/2022 17:16

yes the accomodation in London will be smaller but it is overall cheaper.

Doesn't matter how cheap if landlord won't let person rent it.

Thing link I put on thread earlier pages says 1 in 53 Londoners homeless and that is highest in UK.

Cornwall not second worse for homelessness. After London is other urban places. Luton is second then Brighton and Manchester and Birmingham.

rainingsnoring · 08/05/2022 17:19

I was just trying to find that image to link to as have seen the data before.

Cornwall clearly rated in the second poorest region in N Europe with the majority of the top 10 being in the UK. The governments here should be ashamed. Agree that the voting patterns make no logical sense. I think many voted for Brexit as a protest vote because they feel increasingly unhappy with the constantly falling prosperity and voted for a change. People on lower incomes perhaps feel more threatened by immigrants 'taking their jobs' too unlike the far more wealthy Londoners.

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:33

cornish people will be lovely and hospitable towards women and child refugees, and completely intolerant of male migrants, unless they are old or disabled. We just dont do freeloaders, Able bodied and male, there's work for you, get your ass in gear. No sitting around smoking and drinkling endless coffee in pavement terraces, chatting politics. In Cornwall, real men work for their living.

Organictangerine · 08/05/2022 19:40

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:33

cornish people will be lovely and hospitable towards women and child refugees, and completely intolerant of male migrants, unless they are old or disabled. We just dont do freeloaders, Able bodied and male, there's work for you, get your ass in gear. No sitting around smoking and drinkling endless coffee in pavement terraces, chatting politics. In Cornwall, real men work for their living.

😂

most of the men I knew in Cornwall were unemployed and lived with their mums

think you’re confusing Cornwall with poldark

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:40

And they will be judged if they fall short.

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:42

That's not the version of Cornwall I live in. There's a lot of pride here.

Organictangerine · 08/05/2022 19:44

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:42

That's not the version of Cornwall I live in. There's a lot of pride here.

Oh they had a lot of pride too. It’s just they were also useless.

bellac11 · 08/05/2022 19:50

Refugees are not legally able to work though. Nice judgements.

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:50

Then I hope you have moved to a location that suits you better.

ReadyToMoveIt · 08/05/2022 19:52

bellac11 · 08/05/2022 19:50

Refugees are not legally able to work though. Nice judgements.

Woah, don’t let facts get in the way of some good prejudice!

Organictangerine · 08/05/2022 19:52

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:50

Then I hope you have moved to a location that suits you better.

I did. Devon 😎

Cornwall has higher unemployment than the national average, not trying to be rude but your post was a bit fanciful

as a county it has a lot of problems with drugs and people out of work

XingMing · 08/05/2022 19:54

I wasn't referring to migrants specifically Bellac11. I was thinking about UKraine, where most able bodied men are on the frontline. Fighting off an invasion,

bellac11 · 08/05/2022 20:00

ReadyToMoveIt · 08/05/2022 19:52

Woah, don’t let facts get in the way of some good prejudice!

Asylum seekers are not able to work until they're given the right to work, which normally (at the moment) takes years.

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