Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

*What i see is Cornwall is really struggling to attract enough people to work in key sectors, esp adult social care, 100s of vulnerable elderly cannot get care at home, hospital cannot discharge patients as no care packages can be obtained.

Many reasons for this but the inability to house local young people in their immediate area and low wages are the main cause.*

As @Alexandra2001 has said, social care is in crisis. …worker shortages are so severe it isn’t possible to access home care in some areas, even for those who can afford it, and it’s causing bed blocking in local hospitals. Care workers are low paid but are essential. Remember how we clapped them on our doorsteps during the lockdown?

It is not possible to pay carers more to enable them to afford the petrol to commute to their clients from cheaper areas, because many clients could not afford to pay more. And moving elderly sick people unless essential is often bad. So carers need housing near where their clients live. But there’s a housing shortage in some areas largely due to the proliferation of Airbnb and second homes.

I don't think the question of how diverse is Cornwall is particularly relevant. Cornwall in that sense is like Northmberland where I am from which is 98% white. Yet we had black Roman soldiers building Hadrian's Wall and lots of my ancestors went all over on boats as shipping was a big industry.

On the Cornwall issue yes it has a lot of poverty. The different with say Northumberland is that you don't get rich people wanting to buy houses in Northumberland in the same way as it is so far away and not so trendy. It must be particularly annoying for locals in Cornwall to have all those rich people swan in.

You can tell by how the original poster writes that she is very bright (and she got all those highest grades at GCSE too). I also agree with the comment contrasting it with London (where I now live) where there are so very many schemes. Even if you live in poverty in London you might be walking by Big Ben. You might have City bankers coming into your school at lunch time to do their pro bono effort you are there at the centre of power and there are all kinds of state schools for the bright even just for sixth form. Cornwall (and Northumberland and my mother's native Sunderland) are totally different and don't have the same options.

I don't have any answers however other than people often do have to move - our family did - from Orkney in the 1800s, from Ireland, from Lincs up to NE England when it was booming in about 1870 and then my siblings and I down to the SE for more jobs than the NE. Some people move and other people never do.

Huh? Buying London property isn't the be all and end all.

There's a massive middle ground between affording a Chelsea townhouse and working in a meat factory in the hometown you never

Huh? Thread is about affording to live in home town and OP saying better for Londoners. Lots of poor people in London including Kensington and Chelsea like where Grenfell is. Lots and lots on minimum wage jobs same as like meat factor people.

Also London is more than Chelsea but ignorant people on here think London paved with gold and all Londoners owning Chelsea townhouses.

Xenia, you sympathies with Cornwall cos you say rich people moved in but you did same thing to Londoners.

Not saying you not welcome but you example of what happened to Londoners so is rubbish it's worse for Cornwall.

London more than just central London and if no money can't afford to go to central to walk past Big Ben and so what if can walk past? Cornish can walk on beautiful beaches.

London has highest young people unemployment in UK.

My son is a waiter in a seaside town in Cornwall, and rents a room in a shared house. Other tenants include a lorry driver, a care worker, a barman. If the house is turned into an AirBand B, there is literally nothing else available to rent on his wage - most shared houses have turned into surf lodges or AirBandBs. If he is very lucky he might be able to find something in Truro, but buses aren't frequent enough to cover restaurant hours and he certainly can't afford to run a car, so he will have to move to a city with cheaper accommodation.

Fair enough - he's not a key worker. But presumably all these second homes/AirB&Bs won't be look so attractive when there are no staff for pubs/restaurants/supermarkets, no cleaners or shop assistants, no delivery drivers, petrol pump attendants - all those low waged people who apparently just need to educate themselves and move somewhere else.

London has biggest shortage of nurses in UK.
Cos in Cornwall nurses maybe can't afford to buy but can afford to rent. In London can't afford even rent.

Maybe problem starting to happen in Cornwall what's been happening to London for 30 years but OP talking rubbish saying worse than in London.

I can assure you that bankers are not wandering into your average London’ secondary school @Xenia

Maybe a handful near the City or independent schools but that’s about it.

You maybe don't complain but Londoners forced out maybe do especially if rude nasty locals in other places. Person wants to live in Cornwall or Suffolk or other rural place but prices out Londoners by buying part-time London home. Then complains if Londoners or other outsider moves to Cornwall or Suffolk.

@bellac11 you may @1dayatatime 's post is quite insular but at the end of the day Surrey and the other Home Counties don't have a county specific political party like Mabeyon Kernow. Unless you consider that to be the Conservatives . So in that way we are more like Wales or Scotland. There is a reason for the long running joke about needing a passport to cross the Tamar.

Pp up thread I'm sorry I used Effect inappropriately but my peeve is not being able to live in a town where my birth was registered and where I work.

I can’t comment on London, but nurses struggle to rent housing in parts of the SW too. Although it is as much due to the lack of availability as the cost of rent. The lack of available homes to rent or buy is a real problem.

After all properties in the westcounty (and other tourist areas in the UK) haven't been stolen by Londoners.

Elsie and Xenia, this nasty rude ignorant double standard person what I'm talking about. If they think Londoners are stealing their houses, then all people from Cornwall and Suffolk and Norfolk and Devon and anywhere else with that ignorant pitchfork attitude should leave London cos they've been "stealing" Londoners houses for over 30 years.

They want cake and eat it. Nice people welcome though government needs to give Londoners homes but rude pitchfork double standard ignorant people not welcome in London.

Sorry bad where you are too. Don't want it to be bad anywhere. Was just OP and some others on thread very ignorant saying it's better in London cos it's worse. Even younger doctors can't afford to buy in London now cos I see adverts by nearest hospital asking for landlords for their nurses and doctors.

Good post.

The second home / Airbnb owners might be put off but they are still less likely to be impacted directly by staff shortages than the permanent residents. If the local hospital by your second home is sending ambulances to heart attack cases hours after a 999 call is made, you might quite reasonably decide to stay in your primary residence if you have a heart condition. Residents who don’t have a second home have no choice but to suck up the additional risk.

Housing is so broken in this country. It’s sad.

Thanks for your post, OP. Never been to that part of the world though read enough about what you're talking about.

However, this just does not make sense to me.

Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free.

I don't know anyone living in poverty even being able to go to Uni or live at home rent free.

I said "when I was a kid". I was born in the late 70s, not 1955. Mostly Lib Dem and Labour until 2010 when it all went to shit.

@1dayatatime you don't speak for all Cornish people there. I'm Cornish. I grew up in the 80s with the bottom falling out of the clay industry in full knowledge I would need to move away to work- and I wanted to. Being Cornish doesn't mean you never want to see past the end of your village. I like London. It has welcomed me with open arms.

It's insular, and not, actually, very Cornish. Given the mining. There's a reason there's an outpost of my family in Western Australia.

Don't assume all Cornish people have the same identity and want the same things.

most people I know here are much wealthier than the national average. People with six figure salaries voting against their own best interests because they're thinking of the bigger picture rather than not seeing past the end of their noses.

Not many people in Cornwall EARN six figure salaries, and those that do are entrepreneurs, who have created businesses. We don't earn six figures after 35 years, but we are not trying to make a hobby into a business either. If you asked me whether we earned more or less than the tradesmen we use to do the jobs we don't have the skills to do, I'd guess we earn about the same. That's my electrician, plumber etc on day rates.

I totally understand the social and care shortcomings and short falls in the area. I would rather work in Tesco stacking shelves than wash the bottoms of the elderly and incontinent too. But my DMIL is paying over £4,200 per month to be looked after in a care home. It is paid for by lifetime savings and the proceeds of selling the family home. The taxpayer is not being asked for anything.

Not many people in London earn 6 figure salaries either. The mean average is about £39k. In the SW it's about £29k.

It seems then we are in full agreement, I have no absolutely objection to people wishing to move to Cornwall to live and in fact warmly welcome it on the basis we need a diverse vibrant economy.

The issue I have is second home owners buying up property, leaving it empty for large parts of the year, listing it as a business and paying no council tax which then leads to poorer local services for the permanent residents.

@MerryMaidens

Just to clarify I am firmly in favour of freedom of movement and have absolutely no issue with people wishing to move to Cornwall to live there or equally Cornish people wishing to to move to their parts of the world.

My issue is that the growth of second homes and Airbnbs means that some towns such as St Ives and Padstow are effectively becoming theme parks.