Am I mad to move up north alone?

[Rozziie]

I've been looking to buy in London for the last 6 months (taking 2-3 months off for personal reasons) and I'm just at the end of my tether. When I started looking, I didn't quite have my deposit together and wanted to get an idea of what I wanted and didn't want. Finally got the full deposit saved now and looking to buy in the next month and it seems like there's about 1/10 of the flats that were available in April/May, and those that are on the market are more expensive and less good than what I saw then! Seems like they are disappearing very quickly as well, when it was definitely a buyers' market just a few months ago.

I just feel exasperated to the point of tears. I'm 36 years old and have worked so hard to get to this point, sacrificed a lot to try to get some financial security, and I still can't afford to buy a poxy one bed flat. People keep asking me why I don't move out of London and there are reasons why I don't. It's nice to be somewhere with so much going on culturally, plenty of dating choice for women my age, etc. I've got some family here, and friends. But it's really grinding me down that I'm still renting and dealing with nonsense from landlords. I thought I'd have definitely bought somewhere by the end of this year and now it looks harder than ever.

I've had a look at places like Sheffield and I could buy a 3-bed house with a garden for cheaper than a poky flat here (although I understand there's loads of competition for these at the moment?) or a one or two-bed flat for less than half the price of one in the London surburbs, in the city centre, walkable distance to bars, restaurants, and the mainline train station. Work (London) might be a bit tricky but I could maybe try to only go in once a fortnight or so. Right now I'm paying £1300 to rent a tiny flat in London to go to the office once a week and work from home the rest of the time, which is just awful!

My main worry is that it would end up being even more isolating and lonely than living alone in London already is. I don't really know anyone there at all, and this is quite an awkward age to make new friends. I wouldn't have a workplace to go to. I don't know about the social and dating scene, but when I lived in Manchester it was really bad...most men my age had kids already and that's a dealbreaker for me, I think.

What would you do if you were me? Bite the bullet and try something new or stick to London and suck it up, living in a really far-out surburb or a not nice area?

It really depends on where you live, on wether you will make a social circle. I live, not far from Sheffield. I, moved 45 mins from my family, but have made friends here.

But I can imagine, it could also be isolating. If you wont be working, that will potentially make it harder to meet people.

Not sure about all the men already having kids. That's not my experience really.

Not related to your move but surely at 36 a fair chunk of men will have children wherever you’re living? I guess it might be something to re consider as time passes, just so you keep your pool as wide as possible to find the right person for you.

why not look further north on a good quick trainline to london?

manchester is 2 hours or so from london on train, cambridge? north east?

I would also want a house, and only in london once a week or fortnight i would move!

August the housing market is dead, picks up again in September usually so may be worth waiting a few weeks and seeing what's available then?

@GreenestValley

Not related to your move but surely at 36 a fair chunk of men will have children wherever you’re living? I guess it might be something to re consider as time passes, just so you keep your pool as wide as possible to find the right person for you.

Hmm not sure about that- within my friendship group the men (and women) only started having kids in their late 30s (we are all based in the south of England if that is relevant) so I don't think it's a given that most 36 year olds would have kids already.

I think you should just go for it OP, if it doesn't work then you can sell up in a couple of years or rent the place out and move back to London. There are lots of ways to make new friends that aren't work based, such as joining a park run/running club etc.

Hi OP, i'm thinking of doing the same thing myself so no I don't think you're crazy. I've heard that up many places up north / midlands is a lot friendlier so I am sure you would make friends. I've struggled with friendships in the south east also, so empathise. I have a young DD and as a single parent no way can I afford a property where I live. I'm currently visiting and looking around to see which areas I like. I would suggest visiting and having a long weekend or few days there first, see what you make of the area. Preferably take a friend with you, or stay in an airbnb with a host so you can ask them more about the area etc. It feels much less mad when you make these small steps and have a look around. Best of luck OP!!

@Rozziie as a 2019 London buyer, it took me a very long time to buy a property. I must have viewed 100 properties before I found my flat, it took a year! If you like London and are so close to affording your own place, don't compromise cos it would be very expensive to move back.

I was actually quite close to giving up, but my DH insisted on London (as a fourth generation londoner). I am glad I stayed. I would say the long term trajectory for flats is that the prices would be stagnant for a while so I wouldn't worry about being priced out. In fact based on how long it took me the last time, I have started looking at 3 bed flats even though I am still quite faraway from being able to afford to upgrade.

@Hypnoshiding did you know anyone before you moved? How have you found the area? It looks really lovely, I would love to be close to the Peak District, and Sheffield itself looks really nice...just so worried about being lonely!

@GreenestValley No, absolutely not. Most of the single men in my age range in London don't have kids, and my coupled up friends are only just starting to have them now, mid to late thirties, if they're having any at all.

@GettingItOutThere I am...I don't like Manchester at all so not looking there, but Sheffield seems like a possible good option in that it's a decent size/population, stuff to do, near nice nature, and relatively decent links to London. And of course, could buy a house for the same price as a tiny flat in a rough bit of London! Just so worried about being lonely :(

@flightofthewilderbeast oh really? I had no idea about that. Why is that? i had assumed it was because of the stamp duty holiday ending (anyone who wanted to sell up and move out of London has already done it) and the 5% mortgages coming back (prises rising and more competition).

In your position I'd stay closer to work. I have to get the train from Sheffield to our London office occasionally and it's awful. Always overcrowded and frequently either cancelled or delayed.
There are a lot of bad areas in/around Sheffield so you'd have to do a fair bit of research into the areas you want to live.

@Jasmine11 Yeah that's what I was thinking...worst comes to worst I can always rent it out and it seems like it's Sheffield especially is a decent place to do that because of the student population etc. It's very tempting to go for somewhere way under my maximum budget and then still have some savings left rather than cleaning them all out! Paying a mortgage of £700 or whatever would be SO much more comfortable than what I'm paying now in rent.

@muffindays I'm glad you don't think it's mad! I think if I had a partner I would not hesitate to move, it's just the thought of being all on my own at an age where making new friends is already really hard. Perhaps I am really over thinking that aspect, though. As you say, it's not like friendships in the SE are easy either. It's just I know here that if I had an emergency like being locked out or robbed, I've got people locally to help, but maybe I'm overthinking...I've lived abroad on my own loads and never worried about it then!

Would you consider looking for a job outside of London too? So upping sticks and relocating completely?
That would help with the making friends side of things (assuming offices are back to normal of course). Or are you definitely wanting to keep some ties with London?

In answer to your question though, no i don't think you're mad at all. But put effort into joining clubs, classes, park run etc to build up that network.

@Rozziie I'm sure you would quickly make friends, especially as it's friendlier up north! Also, I think London (and the area of the south east I am from) are much much harder to make friends in because they are either so big / busy or transitory in nature. Going up north there feels like more of a real community vibe. There is meetup, reddit (Sheffield has an active subreddit for advice about moving and meeting people: www.reddit.com/r/sheffield - ask on there for advice) and local community groups to join in with. As a single parent it's become a force of habit to regularly engage with these type of groups... PS if I make it up to Sheffield myself I'll give you a shout :) I'm going to visit it in a week or so for a long weekend to see if I like it. Sadly I don't think the nicer areas are in my budget but it would be good to check it out.

In terms of emergencies you are probably overthinking, I'm sure you could find someone to lend a spare set of keys to pretty quickly. Get friends to come visit often for the first few months and speak to you regularly.

What do you do for work? There will likely be some community desk work spaces you could join for hotdesking which have a great community feel if you're a freelancer.

It's not easy but I think the plunge is worth it. Best of luck !

@onlychildhamster oh really? I feel like an anomaly...someone else from work literally only started looking 3 weeks ago and has already had an offer accepted!

I reckon I've seen about 50+ places now and starting to get the sarcastic comments from people about being too fussy. I do like London generally, I'm just feeling really weary. Perhaps I got too cocky and hopeful about how much was available back in April, when I literally had my pick of flats and areas. I've only put in one offer and it was rejected because someone else went higher. Loved somewhere else but decided it was just too tiny to comfortably wfh (33 sqm or something crazy).

Whereabouts did you end up? I could afford to buy if I went to Plumstead or somewhere but it just seems so incredibly far away from everything and this Crossrail business is taking forever!

Price wise, there was a glut of flats in the 250K-290K range and most of them have disappeared now...it's gone from like 10 pages a day of new properties listed on Rightmove to just one or two in the whole city! perhaps it will pick up again though?

@PissedOffNeighbour22 Yeah it's definitely not an easy commute at all but I might hardly ever have to do it. In terms of bad areas, what do you mean by bad? Like petty crime or violence or what? Is there any area you'd say I should definitely not even think of?

@RubyFowler I would, but I think most jobs in my field are going to be London based or fully remote. i am very unlikely to find a role locally in Sheffield, I think. So any social life is going to have to be hobby based, I think!

@muffindays thanks for the advice! Yes its very true...London is transitory and also huge....it's actually really hard to meet my friends here because even the ones who are also in SE London can often be 30-60 minutes away! I think it's been especially hard with the pandemic, as in 'normal times' I'd have made a big effort to join stuff locally and go to meetups and now I just can't, really.

I work in tech so yeah, coworking spaces or something could work!

[quote Rozziie]@Hypnoshiding did you know anyone before you moved? How have you found the area? It looks really lovely, I would love to be close to the Peak District, and Sheffield itself looks really nice...just so worried about being lonely![/quote]
No. I didn't. I moved here and travelled for work and the school run. Then found a job close by and last year, ds moved school.

45 mins is obviously different than london-sheffield. In an emergency my parents can get here quickly. For example.

And I met a few friends through work. And the some on my street.

I also met dp locally (though it turned out we had briefly met as teens) and he has no kids. He was 37 when we met and I was 34.

I also have a tiny mortgage, which was one of the reasons I moved. My house would have cost double, near my mum and dad.

Me and the kids are settled, (though one is now an adult) we have our 2 dogs and happy life.

But it did take some effort to meet people. It didn't just happen.

Come to south east! I bought my one bed in south Norwood for 200k in may, and there are still loads of flats in your budget in my area. I’ve lived in two northern cities as well as London and in my experience it’s much harder to make friends up north - people were more likely to have groups they’d known since school and to settle down younger, and were less inclined to let new people into their circles. In London I’ve made more friends than I ever had previously with a much more diverse selection of people. Don’t underestimate the cost of commuting either - even once a week a sheffield-london ticket would probably set you back over £100. I was almost tempted to buy a house in my hometown (Midlands) over lockdown but the monthly season ticket alone would have been £800!

@Rozziie both types of crime. I was surprised how much violent crime there is even in nice areas.
I worked in Sheffield but didn't live there. Friends who I worked with complained a lot about the crime. One lived in a 500k house on a lovely estate - worst knife crime in Sheffield was on the next estate! She

Sorry posted too early.
My dad is from parson cross and that is extremely rough these days. As I'm not from Sheffield myself it's hard to say which are the bad areas but places like burngreave and manor top have always been places to avoid. Heeley isn't great either from what I know from friends.
I think dore and totley are still popular but hopefully someone with good local knowledge will put you a list on.

I use the Sheffiled line regularly (once a month, but used to more often) but more dowm the line and it's always been very good! Really surprised at pp saying it's 'terrible' - only a few stops and fast, and I never had one cancelled - occasionally late of course). Not cheap of course. And I never used it in rush hour but from late morning onwards - possibly it's overcrowded in rush hour, and it is quite full going back around 7pm but if you go later than the 1st off peak train (after 7pm) it's not crowded at all.
Plenty of good areas in Sheffield, why discuss the nad ones? It's a health budget for a 3 bed terrae in nice areas, not detached of course.

Whole of SW Sheffiled is nice (most expemsive overall), also off Chesterfield Rd going South and cheaper like Woodseats / Greenhill (still cheaper, suburban, some estates there but plenty of family houses, bordering the countryside), Dore just above and very expensive.
Closer to centre, Meersbrook nice but v.competitive, Heeley is a bit mixed imo but mostly fine, depends where exactly.
Then of course the nice established ones just North off centre - Crookes (studenty but v.nice), Walkley, Fulwood. Stannington is nice, more of villagey, further from centre , again bordering the Peak district. I think it's more expensive but cheaper than the SW.

sorry for typos, OP - well past bedtime!

move to lincolnshire!