Am I mad to move up north alone?

[Rozziie]

I've been looking to buy in London for the last 6 months (taking 2-3 months off for personal reasons) and I'm just at the end of my tether. When I started looking, I didn't quite have my deposit together and wanted to get an idea of what I wanted and didn't want. Finally got the full deposit saved now and looking to buy in the next month and it seems like there's about 1/10 of the flats that were available in April/May, and those that are on the market are more expensive and less good than what I saw then! Seems like they are disappearing very quickly as well, when it was definitely a buyers' market just a few months ago.

I just feel exasperated to the point of tears. I'm 36 years old and have worked so hard to get to this point, sacrificed a lot to try to get some financial security, and I still can't afford to buy a poxy one bed flat. People keep asking me why I don't move out of London and there are reasons why I don't. It's nice to be somewhere with so much going on culturally, plenty of dating choice for women my age, etc. I've got some family here, and friends. But it's really grinding me down that I'm still renting and dealing with nonsense from landlords. I thought I'd have definitely bought somewhere by the end of this year and now it looks harder than ever.

I've had a look at places like Sheffield and I could buy a 3-bed house with a garden for cheaper than a poky flat here (although I understand there's loads of competition for these at the moment?) or a one or two-bed flat for less than half the price of one in the London surburbs, in the city centre, walkable distance to bars, restaurants, and the mainline train station. Work (London) might be a bit tricky but I could maybe try to only go in once a fortnight or so. Right now I'm paying £1300 to rent a tiny flat in London to go to the office once a week and work from home the rest of the time, which is just awful!

My main worry is that it would end up being even more isolating and lonely than living alone in London already is. I don't really know anyone there at all, and this is quite an awkward age to make new friends. I wouldn't have a workplace to go to. I don't know about the social and dating scene, but when I lived in Manchester it was really bad...most men my age had kids already and that's a dealbreaker for me, I think.

What would you do if you were me? Bite the bullet and try something new or stick to London and suck it up, living in a really far-out surburb or a not nice area?

South Norwood is not as nice as CP. I don't personally like S Norwood but each to there own.

@nameychange ooh good luck!! Fingers crossed for a smooth sale for you!

4K is definitely a huge win!

I’m about an 8 minute walk from the station and there are quiet residential roads very close to me although the road I actually live on is a bit of a main thoroughfare. There are quieter roads off south Norwood hill that you could still walk to the station from in 15 mins. Yes, the streets directly off Norwood junction are a bit grotty but no worse than you’d get in, say, Hackney (I’ve lived there too).

@countrytown sure but growing up in London means you’re exposed to one of the world's great cities from childhood. Lots of experience of different people moving to the area and a big city vibe. I’m talking about moving to a small town/village after finding London life easy and informal. Maybe if we’d moved to a suburb of Manchester, I would have had a different experience. But I definitely found London welcoming and friendly without being intrusive.

London is that but I think many people forget that people are born & raised in London. And most people who grow up in London don't have a massively different childhood to dc in other cities.

@Comedycook
I’m in London, definitely “professional circles”, early 30s and my friends are pretty much all coupled up. Not many babies yet but I’d expect that to change in the next 5 years.

Obviously there may be some who are still single but I would say 8 out of 10 will be married and most of them will have young children by 36. Just a prediction.

[quote Subbaxeo]@Rozziie if you like travelling to mainland Europe for breaks, it’s far easier to do from the south east than Sheffield and other northern cities. Unless you fly-but you just don’t have the same choice as London airports. I envy my London friends how they can hop on to Eurostar. When we lived in London, driving to France was easy and something we did regularly. I wouldn’t like to do the dreary drive to channel ports from where I live. Brighton would be great-still expensive but you do get more for your money.[/quote]
Yes, that is a massive part of why I wanted to come to London in the first place. It was unbelievably amazing to be able to get to France in just a couple of hours with none of the airport faff! I would go on a Friday night after work and come back on a Sunday night, just as easy as getting to Manchester or Leeds! I guess I just haven't been able to get any of the benefits in the last 18 months so it's easy to forget how good it used to be in 'normal times'.

@Schooly

I can’t speak for the 30s dating scene in Sheffield, but it’s a great city with lots going on and people are (generally) much friendlier than London.

But I second what someone else has said upthread about august being a dead month for property sales. People are waiting until September when everyone is back from holidays. I would have another look then.

Is there a reason why Sheffield? (Apologies if you already answered this - I only read page 1). There are other cities that are closer to your work that are cheaper than London and still vibrant.

I live in London and we are pondering leaving - so you’re certainly not alone there!

I've always thought it seemed like a nice place to live, quite international/multicultural, very green, a big enough city to have lots going on, with great property prices (although they've shot up since the pandemic started) and the benefit of the Peaks on your doorstep. I have a couple of acquaintances who moved there and absolutely rave about it. It's definitely possible there are other great places I haven't considered!

@MikeWozniaksMohawk

I think you need to factor in a drop in income if you move out of London into any thoughts you have about affordability.

I wouldn't have one, though - I'd keep my job in London.

@countrytown

Personally, I found it harder to connect with people who had never moved away from their childhood home apart from holidays

There are literally loads of Londoners like this because like so many including myself we are 2nd gen immigrants & have zero other connections.

Im still friends with people from school as is DH. If you meet a "proper" Londoner (for want of a better word) still living in London they will also have life long friends.

This is very true! I find born and bred Londoners just the same as Mancunians or people from anywhere in terms of not being interested in making new friends. The thing about London is there are so many people coming from elsewhere, wanting to meet people and make friends so in many ways it can be quite easy to meet new people to do stuff with compared to other places.

@ElephantandGrasshopper

Have you considered renting a place in Sheffield for 6 months to see how you like it? If you hate it, the market in London may have settled down by then.

Would you consider Birmingham? It's a bit closer to London for commuting purposes.

I'm tied into my rental contract for a bit but yeah, I've definitely considered that! Not a massive fan of Birmingham really...I think once the commute is over about an hour, it's much of a muchness, especially if I'll only be doing it occasionally. I think if I were at the hour - 1.5 hour commuting mark, I'd probably go for Brighton/Hove/Portslade to be by the coast!

Ah I see. In that case I would research to cost of peak time trains to London for when you do need to be in the office. Presumably your employer won’t pay for it if you have moved away by choice. A peak return to Manchester can be around £300.

And what about the future? Will you always want to be in that job? If you job hunt in the future you will be restricted to other jobs which are hybrid with infrequent office visits, or you will have to look more locally.

A friend of mine moved at a similar age from London to Manchester alone, has really settled in and made friends via things like Meet up. She moved for work though, I think it could be hard still being linked to London through your job, less of a clean break if that makes sense?

[quote GreenestValley]@Comedycook
I’m in London, definitely “professional circles”, early 30s and my friends are pretty much all coupled up. Not many babies yet but I’d expect that to change in the next 5 years.

Obviously there may be some who are still single but I would say 8 out of 10 will be married and most of them will have young children by 36. Just a prediction.[/quote]
Yes, but that's people who are married and obviously not in the dating market! there are still way more single men 30-40 than elsewhere (simply because there are more people in London full stop) and most of them don't have kids. I'd say maybe 1/10 men my age I meet from apps or through hobbies have kids here, whereas in the Manchester area it felt like the majority of people over about 30 had one or more kids.

@MikeWozniaksMohawk

Ah I see. In that case I would research to cost of peak time trains to London for when you do need to be in the office. Presumably your employer won’t pay for it if you have moved away by choice. A peak return to Manchester can be around £300.

And what about the future? Will you always want to be in that job? If you job hunt in the future you will be restricted to other jobs which are hybrid with infrequent office visits, or you will have to look more locally.

Yeah, it definitely is pricey. I'd most likely stay with a friend or family member and make a weekend of it, work on the Monday and then head back.

I think almost every job in my industry is now fully or partly remote, so location isn't really an issue in terms of needing to be in an office every day. I'd say over half my colleagues have moved out of London over the past year because they felt it was pointless to be paying London rent/mortgage and hardly ever be in an office. There are definitely other reasons to be in London though!

@Rozziie I did make lots of new friends at work post uni, neighbours, NCT but they all end up leaving. 3 of my mum friends from primary have moved/are moving this summer. It's actually a bit annoying. It makes me less inclined to invest in new relationships & focus on older, stable ones if that makes sense.

How funny because i keep hearing how people are unable to sell their London flats at the moment

Could you also compromise on area? Are you one of those London people who will only
Live north/east/west etc? Maybe consider Essex or Kent london borders

Move just outside london so you can travel in for nights out and work but where property more affordable

It's definitely possible there are other great places I haven't considered!
People I know who have left London with a modest budget have gone to places like Hastings and Worthing. But there are the well-beaten-paths like Margate, Folkestone, Brighton, Hove and Bristol. The commute isn’t great, but might be easier than Sheffield?

I know a few mid-30s singles who’ve gone to Margate and they seem really happy. I haven’t actually ever been to Margate (!), and it really depends what you’re after. (And maybe you don’t really want a list of suggestions of other places that are a bit closer to your work, apologies if you’re not interested!)

I also second the person who said you could always try-before-you buy and rent in Sheffield etc first?

I have found it really easy to make friends in London. The only problem is that people I get to know tend to move! Perhaps people set down roots more in Sheffield, etc. But then, maybe in setting down roots, they’re not as open to making new friends like those in London, who are more transient, are? I have no idea. It’s something I think about as we consider leaving the city also.

@purpletrains

How funny because i keep hearing how people are unable to sell their London flats at the moment

Could you also compromise on area? Are you one of those London people who will only
Live north/east/west etc? Maybe consider Essex or Kent london borders

Move just outside london so you can travel in for nights out and work but where property more affordable

I really don't think that's the case, unless they've got cladding issues or something. They are selling like hot cakes around here unless there's something really wrong with them. It's massively picked up since spring or early summer.

I am already compromising on area I think...now looking in SE London because prices tend to be lower than anywhere else. Being just outside London feels a bit like the worst of both worlds because it's almost as expensive, with added travel costs, harder to get home at night in an Uber and no possibility to walk or cycle in. I can walk to work or into central London at the moment....it's a very long walk but it is possible and doable, so I'm not absolutely relying on public transport.

I definitely think another city is a better option than the outskirts of London.

[quote Rozziie]@flightofthewilderbeast oh really? I had no idea about that. Why is that? i had assumed it was because of the stamp duty holiday ending (anyone who wanted to sell up and move out of London has already done it) and the 5% mortgages coming back (prises rising and more competition).[/quote]
They were talking about the housing market on R4 this morning. The traditional busy times are Spring-early summer and Sept-Christmas. The stamp duty holiday has catalysed the “spring rush” for sure, but generally the housing market is busy as people reassess their living options due to the pandemic. Cities aren’t doing too badly either, as people who formerly commuted in are becoming wary of packed trains.

Also, OP, if you’ve lived in Manchester, you must be aware that the North is not a cultural dessert!! If Manchester was not cultural enough for you, I’m not sure what you’ll make of Sheffield (my nearest city, used to live there). I love Sheff for its proximity to the Peaks, but house prices in parts of Sheffield that are next the Peaks can be surprisingly high (S10,S11, S7 areas). There are some very cheap houses in Sheffield too, but you really want to investigate the areas they are in first. There are some far less salubrious parts of the city, which would be temptingly cheap fur someone who doesn’t know the city.

@BikeRunSki I didn't say Manchester wasn't cultural enough, I just didn't like it. I found it very grim and depressing and it was hard to make friends.

What about a commutable buzzy ish town like Hitchin (north Herts). What could you afford there? It has pubs, clubs, art scene, half an hour away from London. Must be a few towns like it - you just need an affordable one.

@InaccurateDream

What about a commutable buzzy ish town like Hitchin (north Herts). What could you afford there? It has pubs, clubs, art scene, half an hour away from London. Must be a few towns like it - you just need an affordable one.

So funny to read Hitchin described like this. I grew up near there and it was a depressingly little market town where most of the drug dealers lived.

OP you mentioned Brighton and definitely worth further consideration I think. It of course has less than London (which applies to everywhere), but has much more going on that most other cities. Always something to do, lots of small theatres as well as the city's bigger venues, lots of events, bars, restaurants etc. And whilst it gets a bad rep on here in terms of everyone being so "right on", it is in my experience very welcoming. You won't be at at home bored, would find things to do and people really quickly.
I think it would be much more daunting starting over in most cities than Brighton.
You won't get a house in Brighton for your budget like you would up north but there is a bigger choice of flats and more for your money than London, within walking distance of cafes/bars etc.
(And you have the sea!)