Am I mad to move up north alone?

[Rozziie]

I've been looking to buy in London for the last 6 months (taking 2-3 months off for personal reasons) and I'm just at the end of my tether. When I started looking, I didn't quite have my deposit together and wanted to get an idea of what I wanted and didn't want. Finally got the full deposit saved now and looking to buy in the next month and it seems like there's about 1/10 of the flats that were available in April/May, and those that are on the market are more expensive and less good than what I saw then! Seems like they are disappearing very quickly as well, when it was definitely a buyers' market just a few months ago.

I just feel exasperated to the point of tears. I'm 36 years old and have worked so hard to get to this point, sacrificed a lot to try to get some financial security, and I still can't afford to buy a poxy one bed flat. People keep asking me why I don't move out of London and there are reasons why I don't. It's nice to be somewhere with so much going on culturally, plenty of dating choice for women my age, etc. I've got some family here, and friends. But it's really grinding me down that I'm still renting and dealing with nonsense from landlords. I thought I'd have definitely bought somewhere by the end of this year and now it looks harder than ever.

I've had a look at places like Sheffield and I could buy a 3-bed house with a garden for cheaper than a poky flat here (although I understand there's loads of competition for these at the moment?) or a one or two-bed flat for less than half the price of one in the London surburbs, in the city centre, walkable distance to bars, restaurants, and the mainline train station. Work (London) might be a bit tricky but I could maybe try to only go in once a fortnight or so. Right now I'm paying £1300 to rent a tiny flat in London to go to the office once a week and work from home the rest of the time, which is just awful!

My main worry is that it would end up being even more isolating and lonely than living alone in London already is. I don't really know anyone there at all, and this is quite an awkward age to make new friends. I wouldn't have a workplace to go to. I don't know about the social and dating scene, but when I lived in Manchester it was really bad...most men my age had kids already and that's a dealbreaker for me, I think.

What would you do if you were me? Bite the bullet and try something new or stick to London and suck it up, living in a really far-out surburb or a not nice area?

We moved up north from London, but I had DH and DC, and new jobs up north. It has been great for us and no regrets.
We offered on 7 properties before we had one accepted. It was crushing every time, as they were all doer uppers that I had costed out and started planning.
But we rented between leaving London and starting afresh up north. There's no way I'd buy blind somewhere new.
If London is where your job is and where you see your life then I would keep trying so that you can stay.

@Rozziie I was looking at 1 bed flats no smaller than 50sqm - in the end I purchased one closer to 60sqm.

I sent you a dm.

Have you considered the long term?

You may "only" be able to afford a 1 bed flat now, but that flat will almost certainly go up in value faster than anywhere in the country.

I sold my flat in London about a decade ago. It had more than doubled in price since I bought it and I bought a 3 bed family home in a small town for £140k cash (the equity I'd made from the flat).

It's now worth about £200k. Great, right?

Well, yes and no. I'd like to move to another city and with a budget of £200k my options are very limited.

If I'd held on to the London flat, I'd have at least £360 equity by now, plus whatever else I'd managed to pay off the mortgage which would make my options much less limited.

If you buy a one bed flat in London, this will almost certainly be a better invesment for the future than most place outside of London. (Assuming you don't buy somewhere with a short lease).

It look me 6 months of looking to find that first flat in London. I even had estate agents telling me I wouldn't be able to find what I wanted at that price. But I did :)

Hang on in there, I reckon. You'll find somewhere eventually.

Oh, having said that, I see you're interested in Brighton, that's practically London as far as house prices are concerned!

@shesellsseacats is that still the case? I find that esp over the course of the pandemic, every kind of property outside london seems to have gone up more than London flats!

But i think its still a good decision for OP to stay in London. What matters ultimately for financial security is earnings, rather than property wealth (esp if all you own is 1 house). I bought in london expecting property prices to go down; I just thought that it would be more beneficial for my career if I had some stability and that a london base would continue to guarantee access to london jobs regardless of property price fluctuations (as well as childcare from my london based MIL in the future which is handy as a working mother). It sounds like while OP's job opportunities are currently remote, it may not always be that way so it would be a risk to move out.

@shesellsseacats is that still the case? I find that esp over the course of the pandemic, every kind of property outside london seems to have gone up more than London flats!

I agree you're right, that's what's happened in the short term. In the long term, unless most people stay WFH permanently, I reckon it'll revert to London rising higher than anywhere else again.

That's where the well paid jobs are.

@onlychildhamster Over the course of a decade? Of course!

I can't see the WFH remaining long-term. I've also seen a number of threads pop up on MN recently from people that moved out of London now complaining that they have to return to London twice a week etc for work. And those who moved abroad facing tax implications.

Those with families may prefer the WFH but the younger demographic don't, particularly in London (which is where they want to be). Our startup is a pretty young team, and we're moving back to an office next month as a result of complaints from staff feeling very isolated.

I live in Sheffield and I love it. Join a couple of social clubs, whatever your hobbies are, and you'll easily make friends. Get the train to London from Doncaster, its one train ride from Sheffield then 1hr 40 on the train from Doncaster. It has a good night life, a huge variety of restaurants, cafes and bars very close to the Peak District which is stunning

Just re-read previous posters posts. Agree about moving to Kelham Island very up and coming and trendy. Alternatively Nether Edge and Brincliffe is more leafy suburban, extremely middle class, family friendly and safe. Crime isn't bad at all, there are some areas of Abbeydale and London Road and pockets of areas in Sheffield that has a drug/gang problem but crime seems to stay within those gangs and the areas are easily avoidable. Definitely not within a radius of being as bad as London crime levels.

I agree you're right, that's what's happened in the short term. In the long term, unless most people stay WFH permanently, I reckon it'll revert to London rising higher than anywhere else again.

That's where the well paid jobs are.

I think that's a bit simplistic. London property had not seen massive increases in many areas pre covid as affordability is quite stretched. Plus there probably enough well paid jobs! I think there will be more regional growth & stagnation in London. FTBs are probable going to be even more likely to buy outside London as they have during the pandemic when high numbers of London FTBs bought outside.

I think the remote working question is interesting. I think hybrid will be the new normal for many places. It will be interesting to see September figures.

I think the remote working question is interesting. I think hybrid will be the new normal for many places. It will be interesting to see September figures.

Yes it would be interesting. Also what exactly constitutes hybrid working- once a week, twice a week or thrice a week? If it's thrice a week, the commute cost would be almost the same as going in 5 days a week, making season tickets necessary and also preventing workers from realistically living too faraway.

Personally, my DH is back in the office 5 days a week (investment bank and the management prefers people to be back in the office). I am still working at home but I know that the management want us back, they are just not pushing us yet. I think however that unless they commit to full remote working (with change in contracts and the like), it is so easy for 'hybrid' working to evolve into being in the office almost full time i.e. boss asking you to come for meeting on extra day, boss asking you to come and train member of staff on another day etc. Which would mean long commutes could quickly become unsustainable.

I would see hybrid as 50/50 I guess but obviously it will depend on each employer. My anecdotal experience isn't that relevant but I don't know anyone who has even gone back yet & no one going back f/t. This is across a few sectors police, law firms, tech, big 4 & some banks. But pre covid the vast majority of those I knew already could wfh just now it's increased.

I agree that 3 days will cost the equivalent of 5 days as public transport is going to have a huge black hole.

September will certainly be interesting

You're probably right, OP. It probably wasn't a very helpful comment. I was just blown away by how many properties in your price range there are, but of course you do know way more about the subject than me (I'm in Wales!)

My apologies

Interesting thread. I would be tempted to stay in London, as you say, at the risk of being lonely elsewhere. Definitely best for dating in your thirties. The past couple of years have been tough for Londoners who are used to a buzzing busy social lifestyle and London life has been hit so far with ao much shutting down - is that influencing your decision? As someone else said, Brighton could be a great other option... that's got a buzz about it, good dating scene and good potential for social life, but isn't too far from London, decent commute and cheaper property. Best of luck whatever you decide!

@surreygirl1987
I am definitely tempted and agree about the dating thing. I'm not sure why others think I'm saying you can't date elsewhere or whatever, it's just that there are far, far more men in my age bracket here who have similar goals/lifestyle/interests to me and have never married or had kids. When I lived in Greater Manchester/Cheshire it was definitely already the 'divorcee with kids' market in my age range even though I was only 33 then! There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not what I want. I feel like a lot of us do things much later in London and I want to find someone in a similar place in life to me.

I've definitely hugely struggled with things shutting down and have not been in a good place mentally for the last 18 months at all. I finally had a good job and the ability to enjoy London more (earned too little in my twenties and early thirties) and was really loving my life for the first time ever when the pandemic hit. I've felt really isolated and lonely, and that is making me a bit worried about moving somewhere new. I also can't drive so that could make me feel isolated if I went somewhere with worse public transport than here.

Still very much considering Brighton although it definitely has a side to it I really don't like - as mentioned in another thread, a really bad drug problem, lots of antisocial behavour and terrible litter in parts (including needles etc.) Perhaps all the positives would outweigh that stuff once you actually lived there and had a good social life, but when I went to view places there in the spring I definitely found it intimidating and offputting! The Hove side seemed a lot better so I think I'd probably focus on there if I did go that way!