Am I mad to move up north alone?

[Rozziie]

I've been looking to buy in London for the last 6 months (taking 2-3 months off for personal reasons) and I'm just at the end of my tether. When I started looking, I didn't quite have my deposit together and wanted to get an idea of what I wanted and didn't want. Finally got the full deposit saved now and looking to buy in the next month and it seems like there's about 1/10 of the flats that were available in April/May, and those that are on the market are more expensive and less good than what I saw then! Seems like they are disappearing very quickly as well, when it was definitely a buyers' market just a few months ago.

I just feel exasperated to the point of tears. I'm 36 years old and have worked so hard to get to this point, sacrificed a lot to try to get some financial security, and I still can't afford to buy a poxy one bed flat. People keep asking me why I don't move out of London and there are reasons why I don't. It's nice to be somewhere with so much going on culturally, plenty of dating choice for women my age, etc. I've got some family here, and friends. But it's really grinding me down that I'm still renting and dealing with nonsense from landlords. I thought I'd have definitely bought somewhere by the end of this year and now it looks harder than ever.

I've had a look at places like Sheffield and I could buy a 3-bed house with a garden for cheaper than a poky flat here (although I understand there's loads of competition for these at the moment?) or a one or two-bed flat for less than half the price of one in the London surburbs, in the city centre, walkable distance to bars, restaurants, and the mainline train station. Work (London) might be a bit tricky but I could maybe try to only go in once a fortnight or so. Right now I'm paying £1300 to rent a tiny flat in London to go to the office once a week and work from home the rest of the time, which is just awful!

My main worry is that it would end up being even more isolating and lonely than living alone in London already is. I don't really know anyone there at all, and this is quite an awkward age to make new friends. I wouldn't have a workplace to go to. I don't know about the social and dating scene, but when I lived in Manchester it was really bad...most men my age had kids already and that's a dealbreaker for me, I think.

What would you do if you were me? Bite the bullet and try something new or stick to London and suck it up, living in a really far-out surburb or a not nice area?

I moved to Sheffield from the south coast age 29, having been in London for years before that.I didn’t know a soul north of Bristol! Lived all over but had a great flat in Woodseats. I made a load of new friends through work and had the best social life ever! Fantastic city-great outdoor spaces, close to Peak District, excellent night life, easy road links so quick to get to Leeds, Liverpool etc. I moved away for work but I still love the city.

Commute to Sheffield really is straight-forward - and does link to St.Pancras if you wanted to use eurostar, also Gatwick train from St P. It's two hours with just three stops (hourly train) and a couple more stops on the slower train (by 10min). It's very comparable with the commute to Bristol.
Bristol actually is another great option but more expensie - can still get a good flat for the budget but not eally a house in best areas. Small cottage possilby.

On the information you've given, I think you'd be better off staying in London. Many more people for friendship or dating, plus lots to do as a singleton. South East London does tend to be a bit cheaper property-wise which should help. I don't know much about the area though, as I am on the other side.

Have a look at this website which can tell you about commuting times, which should help to determine how far your new home could be:

www.commutefrom.com

I know this is going to sound crazy, but people in Sheffield do go on dates and even end up in relationships. No idea why people think this is only possible in London?!?

If one of your joys is hopping over to Europe for a couple of days you'd be a fool to move away from the SE

If you are able to push your budget out a little bit, you may be able to buy a 2 bedroom place in London, and get a lodger to help pay the mortgage.

Something like this:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112306550#/?channel=RES_BUY

I also found this:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109017125#/?channel=RES_BUY

This is decent too:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/108574832#/?channel=RES_BUY

I've just done a search and there are LOADS of flats to buy in your price range in SE London

They can't all be rubbish

In your shoes I'd try and wait it out a bit and see what happens in September. There are lots of people currently in London thinking to move out, and so property prices in other areas are rising. Due to all the remote working there should be a boom in the type of property you are looking for as young professionals seek houses elsewhere and commute to the office once a week etc.
Knowing Sheffield, I wouldn't want to rely on that train line into London for a regular commute. It is too far for me. The train may be around 2 hours but you need to factor in getting to the station and from kings cross at the other side. personally, if I was doing a regular commute into London by train I'd want to be able to have another option like park and ride etc.
You could set yourself a time limit, eg look in London until Christmas, if no luck then broaden search to within a 1.5-2h total commute etc.

Op, if you do decide to re locate to the north, just be careful you don’t end up being priced out of the southern property market after a few years ( depending where you end up of course!)

You can certainly get more property for your money in the north, but you don’t want to be in a position where you can’t even afford to buy a shoe box, if you wanted to re locate south. That said, the south isn’t the epitome of the universe. There are some lovely towns and cities. What about York. Leeds. Chester, Manchester? No clue re property prices, but you can get the culture ams diversity even on the North!

Working remotely is going to be an issue socially, where ever you end up. It’s just finding a place which offers the activities etc which will allow you to meet other like minded human beings.

Wouldn’t worry about your age either. As people, we often fall in and out of friendships. Those who don’t move far, obviously tend to stay in there same social circle, from what I’ve seen where I live.

Do you have close family in London?

When I was your age, I sold my house in the south, moved to the north, had two kids, but my parents missed out on so much of their lives. Now I worry about them getting ill health and not me being around etc. Also having absolutely no family within a 150 mile radius has not been easy at all.

Just food for thought really going forward.

I bought in Forest Hill last year for around the £300k mark and have no regrets. I'm on the Horniman side of Forest Hill and every time friends come to visit, they're amazed at what I got for that price, because of how nice the area is.

Remember that if you're born and bred in London and decide to move out because it's cheaper, you risk not being able to return. I know people that are now trying to move back from Kent etc (so not too far away) but can't afford to.

@ComeonJulia

I know this is going to sound crazy, but people in Sheffield do go on dates and even end up in relationships. No idea why people think this is only possible in London?!?

Who said they didn't? People in the north generally tend to settle down younger and generally tend to have kids younger. I've already described how in Manchester, many or even most of the men in my age range already had kids. London is also far bigger than Sheffield and more people = more options.

What's so hard to understand?

[quote Starseeking]If you are able to push your budget out a little bit, you may be able to buy a 2 bedroom place in London, and get a lodger to help pay the mortgage.

Something like this:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112306550#/?channel=RES_BUY

I also found this:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109017125#/?channel=RES_BUY

This is decent too:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/108574832#/?channel=RES_BUY[/quote]
Yes, I know. The options that open up at £325K or so are much better. I just don't think I could stretch to that really...£270K is the absolute max I can borrow on my salary and 30K is the max deposit I can pay, unless there's something I'm missing about how I might be able to get more?

I'd go for it OP - assuming you've got a car to travel & get to places. Worst case - a year living in a house you own, don't like it, sell house & look to move back! The price differential between London & elsewhere is pretty much only going to reduce, so I highly doubt you'll be priced out further.

@MiaRoma

I've just done a search and there are LOADS of flats to buy in your price range in SE London

They can't all be rubbish

Well you obviously know far more than me, who has been looking for flats for months and viewing literally dozens of them. Like, how is this supposed to be helpful?!

'South East London' is a very big place. A lot of it is areas I am not considering because they're really badly connected or really dodgy/run down. When searching in the areas I'd actually live in, there's often not even one full page of results at the moment, and out of what's there, I've either viewed the property and seen that it wouldn't work or there's a very good reason why nobody has bought it (some of them have absolutely ridiculous service charges of over £2000 a year).

It's incredibly annoying when people have a cursory glance at Rightmove and make comments like this, so please just don't.

@BlitzenandMikey

Op, if you do decide to re locate to the north, just be careful you don’t end up being priced out of the southern property market after a few years ( depending where you end up of course!)

You can certainly get more property for your money in the north, but you don’t want to be in a position where you can’t even afford to buy a shoe box, if you wanted to re locate south. That said, the south isn’t the epitome of the universe. There are some lovely towns and cities. What about York. Leeds. Chester, Manchester? No clue re property prices, but you can get the culture ams diversity even on the North!

Working remotely is going to be an issue socially, where ever you end up. It’s just finding a place which offers the activities etc which will allow you to meet other like minded human beings.

Wouldn’t worry about your age either. As people, we often fall in and out of friendships. Those who don’t move far, obviously tend to stay in there same social circle, from what I’ve seen where I live.

Do you have close family in London?

When I was your age, I sold my house in the south, moved to the north, had two kids, but my parents missed out on so much of their lives. Now I worry about them getting ill health and not me being around etc. Also having absolutely no family within a 150 mile radius has not been easy at all.

Just food for thought really going forward.

I have a sister in London, that's it. My parents are abroad and I don't really have much close family anywhere in the UK. Most of my UK friends are in or near London.

Yes, moving north and being priced out of London/SE is definitely a thing I'm concerned about. It could be that after the pandemic, remote working gets phased out again and then most career opportunities are in London. It seems unlikely but not impossible!

I think it would be very unwise to BUY somewhere up north without ever having lived there, yes. But move, rent short term and get an idea of the place.

I personally wouldn't like to live that far from London, unless I was in some sort of gorgeous rural area. I probably wouldn't pick Sheffield after London, no. I've lived all over the UK except the north of England though tbf, so I'm only basing this on visiting the north of England, not on living there. Oh, and I also haven't lived in Wales, although I did live in Somerset which is close

I've lived in Scotland and NI and the weather / darkness in winter can be quite depressing depending on how you react to to that. I loved both places a lot though and loved the culture, so it did balance things out.

@smallgoon

I bought in Forest Hill last year for around the £300k mark and have no regrets. I'm on the Horniman side of Forest Hill and every time friends come to visit, they're amazed at what I got for that price, because of how nice the area is.

Remember that if you're born and bred in London and decide to move out because it's cheaper, you risk not being able to return. I know people that are now trying to move back from Kent etc (so not too far away) but can't afford to.

I love Forest Hill! It's one of the places property in my price range is really scarce ATM. I offered on a place there a month ago and missed out because someone else bid higher than I could go. I'm still looking every day and hoping something might come up.

I wasn't born here, I just moved here for work but now it's where my friends are and also where almost all the decent roles in my industry are based, so a bit wary of ending up unable to come back, as you say.

I know you said you work in tech, OP, but what area/speciality?

@Rozziie If I were you, I wouldn't be writing off more expensive properties. Whenever I've done a property search, I've looked at properties up to 50k higher than my budget, particularly if you're looking for a London flat.

I paid 35k below asking on my flat in Forest Hill. Remember, sellers are encouraged to price high by estate agents. By excluding those above 300k, you're really limiting yourself.

@smallgoon is right..most London properties are listed at fairly high prices. You can always put in a lower offer and see what the seller says. Worst they could say is no.

Seriously OP come and have a look around south Norwood. I’d be happy to meet you for a coffee. If you fancy it DM me

@smallgoon Whenever I've done that it's turned out to be a waste of time because the vendor went with a higher offer...I saw a place at 315K and offered 300K and was immediately rejected. Saw a place last week at 'offers over 300K', offered 292K with the justification that it needed quite a bit of work doing and was told in no uncertain terms the vendors wouldn't go under 300.

Perhaps I've just been unlucky? Or there's some other reason I'm not being 'picked'? What kind of properties were you viewing if you don't mind me asking?

@SaskiaRembrandt

I know you said you work in tech, OP, but what area/speciality?

No particular area...it's my role which is quite specialist, not the area. I moved to London in the first place for work and regularly check out job opportunities, and I wouldn't get anything like what I have now anywhere else. Even adjusting for the much higher cost of living here, I'm still way better off than I was living in the north.

@Rozziie property finding is a lot like finding a life partner, I feel. You might keep getting rejected/disappointed but then you only need 1 vendor to say yes. I kept giving out offers, almost all got rejected. It's standard in the London market, sellers always want to get the maximum and also many flats I was looking at were owned by investors- they knew they could rent it out even if they didn't sell.

It might feel like a waste of time now but after a while, there would be a vendor who accepts your offer at a price you can accept..emphasize your good points- chain free, can move quickly etc.

Yes, I know. The options that open up at £325K or so are much better. I just don't think I could stretch to that really...£270K the absolute max I can borrow on my salary and 30K is the max deposit I can pay, unless there's something I'm missing about how I might be able to get more?

Don't be disheartened, there's definitely bargains to be had on flats in London at the moment as lots of people are moving out to get houses with gardens due to the pandemic.

If I were you, I'd keep looking and set your Rightmove search to £325k. It's possible that for a property that's been on for a while, or a vendor desperate to move, they will accept a lower offer within your budget.

Good luck, I really hope you find somewhere!