Mum's moving- Hoarder alert

[Scantilydoesit]

My mum has a large 4 bed house in a smallish town in Somerset.
She's lived there about 15 years and stayed after my dad died.
Both of them were (mum is) awful hoarders.
Her house is rammed top to bottom with stuff.
She's75 and doesn't have good sight and I'm absolutely dreading having to help (it will be me as the others live a long way away).
Her house is also very dirty and dusty. She cooks all the time but never cleans and there are splashes of stuff over the kitchen that have been there forever. Crumbs are all over the floor every time I visit and I just find it incredibly depressing.
I try to clean when I go, only for it to return to it's previous state in about 2 hours after she's cooked again.
However, If I dare mention anything, she goes on the defensive. My sister has totally given up and hardly goes to see her because of this.

She will not throw anything away, nor will she have anyone in to help her.
I casually mentioned today that she might look at storage options while selling the house.
Her reply was that no way, she can't afford that and people want to see a homely home!
I suggested she maybe put away some books and ornaments but again that was a no and so I left it.
The decor is all very old fashioned with homemade heavy curtains everywhere, reds, greens, yellows ....and all sorts of odd bits of non matching furniture.

So, how do you think the house will sell?
Will people see past it?
I know it's awful but I'm hoping they don't and I can't bear the thought of it all.

My own house had awful colours too but I saw past it . However, it was clean with minimal furniture when we viewed. Personally, I could never buy up something like my mum's as I'd not know what wa hiding under the fridge. (there is no way she doesn't have mice and when I have to stay there I lie awake all night listening for them!!).

Sorry cross post.

So if you say no, what's the worst thing that can reasonably happen?

If the fire brigade see the house they will put a flag on their system so if there is a fire, firefighters will know what they are dealing with.

Perhaps you could get them to visit, but explain that she won't take any advice on board.

Cava, been controlled all my life I guess and not learnt to break those bonds. It was the same with my dad, then my husband. It's a horrible cycle to be in and hard to explain.

I know, it's clear from your posts. I'm not belittling how difficult it is. I was trying to get you to think through, for this one thing, what would happen saying no and realise that you can say no, the sky won't fall in.
But I totally understand if that thought process is too painful to go through here

@Becca19962014

I'm neither manipulative or abusive.

Hoarding is a recognised mental health problem.

Social services, GP and the fire brigade made my situation a thousand times worse as all they did was lecture me about being filthy and disgusting and got some social worker students to turn up with bin bags and throw absolutely everything I owned - dumping it all in the tip, and I mean everything. I don't even have a birth certificate anymore or passport to prove my identity and can't get them replaced (long story).

I lost a friend to hoarding a couple of years ago after the same was done to her. Though it is, supposedly recognised as a mental disorder that's not the case everywhere and, in some areas like mine the 'treatment' worsens the problem. She died when things fell on her, in the court case the local authority accused her of refusing to engage. Like me she asked for help and support and ended up losing literally everything, she then banned anyone from coming in under any circumstances (as I now do) and it got so bad things fell on her and killed her.

Sorry to hear you're suffering. Are you getting any help for it? Counselling?

One things I've found with hoarders I've known is that they're unwilling to admit that they have a problem or kid themselves and others that it's 'not that bad'. They then refuse to engage with any help whatsoever, which is awful for their families.

I'd imagine people won't see past it. My mother-in-law is a hoarder and when she moved, it was a nightmare. The house sold for way, way, way below its value and when it came to completion, she simply hadn't packed. The new owners turned up to move in and she just said no, she's not ready. I won't go into details but saying no isn't actually an option. When my husband and I were purchasing, we were really aware of how much stuff was in the houses we were viewing because we didn't want to end up trying to move in and finding the old owner still hasn't packed!

Is there a garage or similar storage at yours or her new place?
If so, encourage her to pack a car-load of 'essential' stuff to 'unpack first' at the new place, and instruct movers to take the furniture but everything else gets boxed and put elsewhere. Then a few boxes at a time can be taken in for her to sort through (possibly with some pre-sorting to the bin...)

If she's the type of hoarder who is just trying to ensure she has the essentials (but has got into an unhelpful mindset), or disability etc mean it's just got all too much, this can work - it gave my ILs a new lease of life and their new smaller house is possibly 'mildly cluttered' but feasible to keep clean. Though it's taken that 10 years to get the garage empty of boxes.

If there's a lot more mental health problems involved, then I don't know but may be worth a try. Offering to pay moving costs may be well worth it.

@AfterSchoolWorry

I would do nothing at all OP.

She's not going to be able to pull off a move. Just nod your head and agree with her ramblings.

She'll drain you of energy and money if you let her. Just let her churn her hoard until out all fizzles out.

You could put Herculean effort into trying to help her but she doesn't know what she's doing. Don't waste your time and energy.

Let it play out.

Good advice.

I would redirect any money, time and headspace that you were considering sinking into this enabling and futile endeavour to therapy for yourself to understand why you are last man standing from 5 siblings.

I suspect that her undoubtably shocking parenting left you with poor boundaries - focus on getting these fixed so that life can and DC CAN HAVe a better life

First thing's first...
"I won't help you do viewings here until you have an offer on your house. There's no point. You'll just be setting yourself up for disappointment."
That kicks the issue of her staying with you into the long grass. As I said, I seriously doubt she'll be able to sell.

www.envirom8westmidlands.co.uk/cleaning-services-west-midlands/compulsive-hoarding?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkLqCxtKU8AIV6-jtCh3AIwtXEAAYAiAAEgJXNfD_BwE

Could you enlist some professional help

I would so no to her coming to stay and look at properties until hers is on the market and leave her to deal with estate agents herself

Ultimately you could block her number and have a break from talking to her about it.

Oh sympathies @Scantilydoesit

My aunt hoardes. Advice after years of getting sucked in. Do nothing and certainly don't clear the hoarde. Unless your DM wants it gone you will put in hours and hours of time produce a clean house and it will all be rehoarded before you can say hoarde.

I think the idea that others have floated of not helping her view properties until she has got hers under offer is good. It will buy you time indefinitely!

Just accept that as she gets older other people will get involved and judge. You just have to know that you have done all that could reasonably be expected.

I've got unhelpful members of my aunts generation who haven't been in her house for 25 years phoning me up to tell me to do more. One probably won't speak to me again as I was very blunt. I have done way way more than could reasonably be expected and my aunt continue to deny that there is a problem (she currently has no oven, freezer or dishwasher and can only access half her living room and one of the three bedrooms in the house. The dining room, other two bedrooms and garden shed are totally lost).

Great advice everyone.
Her attitude this evening was if it sells it sells, if it doesn't it's not meant to be and that no, she's not getting cleaners/putting stuff away for other people as it's her home and if they like it they'll buy it.
( she texted me. I hadn't offered any more advice).
So, we'll see what happens with her EA next week when he goes to see it. She did call an EA where she wants to move to and told me they said they were doing viewings as normal and yes, she could go and see places which is not what I read on the government website).
Anyway, I'm leaving it at that and not saying any more about it.
Acovic, I am sure I will be judged because she has lied many times before about stuff and I was very angry to learn today that she's told my sister that I wanted her to move. I can imagine she's told her friends the same and that she's doing it for me somehow. and if I don't help I'll be a terrible daughter.
I am really sick of all the games now.
SSloou, right. I'm the soft touch in the family as I can never say no ( not just to my mum but anyone). I've 'lent' out so much money that's never been returned. I have to help myself here and maybe this is the kick up the backside I need.

Anyway, I love you guys on mumsnet. I've had lots of help from here in the past and it's the only place I can truly open up. I know that's a bit sad but it's such a great help.

Being a soft touch is not a good role model for your DC. People pleasers get exploited and walked all over. Been there done that.

Choose to work on your triggers, impulses and boundaries - your Mum will be a great experiment. Learn to never commit in the moment - buy time with “I will think about that / I will get back to you / not sure / need to check diary etc .” ie loads of “vague” - then come back with a “No, that doesn’t work for me / sorry I’m busy / I have other plans”

Sounds like she has loads of other issues - don’t get swamped. Give your finite time, energy, headspace and spirit to your DCs and yourself.

Just come back to this thread.
I was kinda coached and manipulated by my mum and grandmother to be the idiot that facilitated every aspect of their lives.
My grandmother pushed me too far. I worked full time, had 2 kids and was studying and I had failed to do something. She made me feel like shit.
I wrote her a letter. It basically said I'm sorry that I'm not good enough but my husband, children and work come first. You have behaved badly towards me for years and it stops now. If you want to apologise, I'm willing to listen.
I knew she would never apologise. I saw her once more before she died, when my grandad died a year or so later. I have never regretted it. And my mum is far more reasonable and I am extremely careful about what I commit to.
Write it down is what I would suggest.
Workout what, if anything, you are prepared to do and tell her in writing.
It worked for me.

, OP.
You've had a lifetime of conditioning. It's not fair to think you can overcome that with a snap of your fingers.

However, you have discovered you don't enjoy living that way - which is the first step! I hope you can get the help you need for better boundaries and peace of mind.

One more thing; it's incredibly liberating when you stop giving a shit about what other people think. So what, if your mum bad-mouths you to others? You can't set your life on fire, just to please Mrs Bloggs at 77 Judgy Street. If your DM is that manipulative, I am sure you are not the first or the last to get that.

I can also guarantee that most people are simply not that interested in the sins of others (otherwise, Mr Johnson would not be Prime Minister).

@Aquamarine1029

Your sister is right, so am I, and I really, really hope you listen to one of us. Hoarders are always manipulative and abusive, they couldn't be successful hoarders if they weren't. Sorry, op, but it's time for tough love. If you really want what's best for your mother, you will not enable her.

If she gets moody, let her. And then ignore her. Stop allowing her tantrums to impact you.

This is a terrible comment.

Hoarders hoard for different reasons.

Not all are manipulative.

Thanks SSloou, Spider and ABC, It's an awful thing when I'm already 40 myself. I feel really stupid and embarrassed that I'm still in this damm situation.
Our whole family was just some kind of show to the outside world. I can't stand drama as I'm an introvert and I'd be so much happier rid of it all.

I have recently emptied my parents' house . My Dad died and my Mum has gone into Res Care .

When I used to visit I always did with the aim of getting a good few items to the Charirt Shop and the dump. It was bloody hard ,
Every item that went out had to be 'bargained for'

She had two knitting machines and two sewing machines that she couldn;t use ( she cannot even hold cutlerly)
We went through them and I assembled one onto a secure table ( she never used it BTW) . The other went in the dump it was broken and filthy . She kicked off because she wanted me to donate it t the Church . ( I can just imagine Yeah thanks for dumping your rubbish on me )

Clothes she never wore . Clothes she took apart and never sewed .
Jewlerry , scarves (she never ever wore scarves)

We had to get two Van Loads to remove it (skip sized)
Still not done yet .

It is an illness . I think she was comforted by stuff . She grew up Post war where her Mother fixed things . She was happy .
But her room wasn't safe .
She hoarded anything people were getting rid of .
You cannot reason with this .

My late DM always used the excuse that she'd lived through a war and hence needed to keep stuff. Late DF lived through the same war and was not a hoarder.

Hi @Scantilydoesit it might be worth looking at the Stately Homes threads on the Relationships board for some tactics, reading and resources and fellow people going through similar.

It’s a difficult situation and I can’t really add beyond the advice you’ve had already but please practice at putting your needs and your DCs first before your DMs. Easier said than done I know.

Contact adult SS and step back, her health is declining and realistically cannot continue to live like that.

Oh dear

I agree with some previous posters. You need to focus on you here; can you pay for some counselling to work all this complicated stuff through?

She won’t change but it’s not going to help us telling you say this and do that until you’ve got yourself in a position you have the tools to cope with it.

I get the guilt btw. Totally.

I think the reason this post has 5 pages already and is growing is that many of us are or have been in this situation with hoarding relatives. My father was, he’d occasionally ring and ask for help in decluttering but when the conversation turned to getting rid of stuff ( golf clubs he’d never used, an old canoe, broken fridges, a multitude of non functioning small electrical goods, payslips going back to the 60s etc etc) the shutters would invariably come down. My best friend had a similar situation with her mother. Having hoarding parents has been an extra bond in our friendship. I think many hoarders have experienced loss of trauma and develop dysfunctional relationships with objects as a kind of palliative. Sadly in my family my brother has taken up where dad left off and is also hoarding, in the same house. It is the fact that hoarders can put their collections of objects above relationships within their family that is so difficult to take. Personally I had counselling for nearly two years, mostly about my relationship with my father as I had very weak boundaries and as he got dementia I was perpetually on call to sort everything out. I think the advice to try and take a step
back is a good one OP and it sounds like you already have good insight into the way your mother manipulates you .