Mum's moving- Hoarder alert

[Scantilydoesit]

My mum has a large 4 bed house in a smallish town in Somerset.
She's lived there about 15 years and stayed after my dad died.
Both of them were (mum is) awful hoarders.
Her house is rammed top to bottom with stuff.
She's75 and doesn't have good sight and I'm absolutely dreading having to help (it will be me as the others live a long way away).
Her house is also very dirty and dusty. She cooks all the time but never cleans and there are splashes of stuff over the kitchen that have been there forever. Crumbs are all over the floor every time I visit and I just find it incredibly depressing.
I try to clean when I go, only for it to return to it's previous state in about 2 hours after she's cooked again.
However, If I dare mention anything, she goes on the defensive. My sister has totally given up and hardly goes to see her because of this.

She will not throw anything away, nor will she have anyone in to help her.
I casually mentioned today that she might look at storage options while selling the house.
Her reply was that no way, she can't afford that and people want to see a homely home!
I suggested she maybe put away some books and ornaments but again that was a no and so I left it.
The decor is all very old fashioned with homemade heavy curtains everywhere, reds, greens, yellows ....and all sorts of odd bits of non matching furniture.

So, how do you think the house will sell?
Will people see past it?
I know it's awful but I'm hoping they don't and I can't bear the thought of it all.

My own house had awful colours too but I saw past it . However, it was clean with minimal furniture when we viewed. Personally, I could never buy up something like my mum's as I'd not know what wa hiding under the fridge. (there is no way she doesn't have mice and when I have to stay there I lie awake all night listening for them!!).

@Becca19962014

I'm neither manipulative or abusive.

Hoarding is a recognised mental health problem.

Social services, GP and the fire brigade made my situation a thousand times worse as all they did was lecture me about being filthy and disgusting and got some social worker students to turn up with bin bags and throw absolutely everything I owned - dumping it all in the tip, and I mean everything. I don't even have a birth certificate anymore or passport to prove my identity and can't get them replaced (long story).

I lost a friend to hoarding a couple of years ago after the same was done to her. Though it is, supposedly recognised as a mental disorder that's not the case everywhere and, in some areas like mine the 'treatment' worsens the problem. She died when things fell on her, in the court case the local authority accused her of refusing to engage. Like me she asked for help and support and ended up losing literally everything, she then banned anyone from coming in under any circumstances (as I now do) and it got so bad things fell on her and killed her.

@Becca19962014 it's quite easy to get replacement birth certificates. Anyone can order them from the gov.uk website and they are £11.

Thanks for all the brilliant replies and ideas. I've read through them all. I thought I'd get told off actually and people would rip into me for being mean but I'm glad most of you understand.
As I said before, this is not only a hoarding issue and as people have pointed out, many are not like my mother.
There are several issues going on including guilt trips and all the rest.
Anyway, I read that EAs where she is looking are only doing live viewings for viewers who are absolutely serious and seeing that her house is not even on the market yet ( I've been booked in to take her early May), I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.
The other thing is, she and I would be putting ourselves and others at risk every time she goes to look.
I'm exhausted already with the thought of it and I've decided you are all right. I'm going to offer to pay for cleaners and packers. I'm not doing it unless she chucks loads of stuff away and is serious about changing.
I doubt this though. She's moved quite a bit in my lifetime and it's been the same story every time (but gets worse).
I was remembering last time they rented a place in between moves for a few months and they didn't get their deposit back. My mum was furious but we all know why!

Well, how likely is it that she will actually leave the house, even if she gets through the whole sale without kicking off? I wish you luck with all of it but I wouldn't buy in the circumstances described even if it appears to be the bargain of the century price wise.

I just spoke to my sister. She's told her that I want her to move!!!!

Sorry but I can't even see how this is going to work. She'll likely get a pittance for her house as most won't touch it with a barge pole, what's she going to do with it all in a smaller house? If she won't part with any of it then it's going to be a nightmare. She's trapped by her crap basically. I had years of this from my mother (now gone) and I'm still trying to sort out her house 2 years after she went into the nursing home. It's a horrible depressing job.

I don't think you'll get her cooperation so it's never going to happen she won't be able to sell her house.

I would do nothing at all OP.

She's not going to be able to pull off a move. Just nod your head and agree with her ramblings.

She'll drain you of energy and money if you let her. Just let her churn her hoard until out all fizzles out.

You could put Herculean effort into trying to help her but she doesn't know what she's doing. Don't waste your time and energy.

Let it play out.

Would she be motivated by money? Pointing out that clearing and cleaning the house is likely to mean an extra however many thousands of pounds might give her some incentive for her move. I know my own mother found this motivating at one point, though she was possibly not quite at the same level of hoarding.

We sold a house like this through auction, making it very clear that on sale the majority of the crap would still be there. It was unsafe and my relative could not continue to live there but I could not take on such a mammoth task when they were so difficult.

It did sell for about 100k less but I don't regret not clearing it, it took them weeks and I just didn't have that amount of spare time. The developers were kind and when they found things that they thought were sentimental they kept them and sent a box on.
Please don't take this on, it's too much.

Another one saying dont take this on. The problem is too big. You cant fix it and all you'll do is damage your mental health trying and your mum will get unhappy and blame you for everything. To her you'll take her to view properties when she's found a buyer.

@bunburyscucumbersandwich yes if you know who your parents are and your fostering was done properly and you weren't just dumped by social services on "grandparents" which clearly weren't mine as I couldn't get the questions right about my parents to get one

@bunburyscucumbersandwich sorry that was more aggressive than I'd intended. "My parents" have told me I'm making it up, but the fact is the gov website rejected their details for my birth. Not your fault just something that I've found out very recently and is upsetting for me.

@Becca19962014

I'm neither manipulative or abusive.

Hoarding is a recognised mental health problem.

Social services, GP and the fire brigade made my situation a thousand times worse as all they did was lecture me about being filthy and disgusting and got some social worker students to turn up with bin bags and throw absolutely everything I owned - dumping it all in the tip, and I mean everything. I don't even have a birth certificate anymore or passport to prove my identity and can't get them replaced (long story).

I lost a friend to hoarding a couple of years ago after the same was done to her. Though it is, supposedly recognised as a mental disorder that's not the case everywhere and, in some areas like mine the 'treatment' worsens the problem. She died when things fell on her, in the court case the local authority accused her of refusing to engage. Like me she asked for help and support and ended up losing literally everything, she then banned anyone from coming in under any circumstances (as I now do) and it got so bad things fell on her and killed her.

This must be very difficult but. . . just because someone has a diagnosed mental health problem that does not mean they are not manipulative or abusive.

Unless you were born somewhere overseas that has a poor recording system for births, deaths, etc, of course you can get a copy of your birth cert. If in England or Wales, contact the General Records Office. A similar system operates in Scotland.

I'm very sorry to hear of your friend's death but it is not the fault of the local authority that lots of things fell on your friend. If she "banned anyone from coming in under any circumstances", then that is the definition of "refusing to engage." Maybe they could have been more sensitive to your friend's difficulties but, equally, hoarders are notoriously difficult to work with. Presumably the authority was involved in the first place because your friend's hoarding was creating a problem with infestation (rats, etc) and/or causing a fire hazard? A problem that can badly impact on other people.

@AfterSchoolWorry

I would do nothing at all OP.

She's not going to be able to pull off a move. Just nod your head and agree with her ramblings.

She'll drain you of energy and money if you let her. Just let her churn her hoard until out all fizzles out.

You could put Herculean effort into trying to help her but she doesn't know what she's doing. Don't waste your time and energy.

Let it play out.

I agree with this. Disengage. When she talks about moving say "oh have you talked to the estate agent about selling then?" If she talks about looking at houses near you say "don't you think we should wait until you know when your own house will sell and for how much".

I can't see this move happening without incredible stress on you (as in you being asked to move years of accumulated rubbish and stuff out at the last minute on moving day because she will refuse to let you do anything beforehand).

As a pp said, your children are more important. you can't solve her unless she wants you to. Talk to your sister for support and dial way way back on your mother.

I can see what you mean about manipulative. She is already creating a narrative of "oh Scantily begged me to move to help her out and now won't help me/I lost all my lovely furniture/I miss my church" etc.

Sorry, Becca, I've just read your response to bunburyscucumbersandwich. The problem with your cert, family members not being transparent about details, etc sounds awful.

@TurquoiseLemur read my reply above re birth certificate.

The local authority were partially blamed by the coroner for ignoring the guidelines when dealing with hoarders which is strictly NOT to just go in and throw everything away.

@TurquoiseLemur sorry x-post!! Don't worry.

Easily done-don't worry also. What a mess!

Sorry if I came over rather forcefully there. It sounds like you have encountered people who aren't sufficiently informed about hoarding. . .and they should be, absolutely. This triggers me partly because we have controlling and downright bloody awkward relatives in our own family who cause load of stress to others while compromising on nothing and THEY don't even acknowledge that they have a problem!

OP your mother sounds just like mine was, right down to the descriptions of her home and personality.
To be brutally honest I don't think she will be able to move. An estate agent is going to insist on the house being presentable for viewings and she will not make it that way. The mental health condition will prevent her being able to get rid of anything. The only offers that will be made on a house in that state are not going to be enough to satisfy her or afford a new place.
The only way I was able to deal with my mum's house was once she went into a care home. Before then she would become furious at any attempt to tidy or throw things away.

She called me today and told me I was rude asking her to consider putting some things in storage. I've had enough and bloody stressed out. She said she's NOT throwing out any furniture and it's her stuff and people should understand that. Apparently, I'm just odd thinking like that.
She's insisting on coming to mine for 'longer period' (ie a couple of weeks) so she can go on viewings next month etc. I really am at breaking point now and it's not even started.
This should have gone in the relationships forum!!

It's not so much her coming to mine. It's just that I have to work and I can't when she's around. She has no understanding of this as she never worked (My dad was on a good salary). If I don't work, I don't get paid which is why so stressful at the moment.
I really need to talk to someone about this. I'm just not sure who yet.

Stop talking about the hoarding/getting rid of stuff at all. Just say sure/whatever when she talks about moving all her stuff - and let it be her problem.

See if you can see a counsellor for yourself. What you need to do is tell your mother your home is now your office and you cannot have her to stay right now. Then tell it hardly matters as looking at houses is premature when she hasn't got an estate agent in to look at hers. But I can see why your history and dynamic with her will make that difficult for you.

But remember, she has no problem whatsoever saying no to you even though it will inconvenience you terribly and make your life hard. Why can't you say no to her even though it will make no difference to her life at all (it isn't like she is actually going to buy a house in that 2 weeks - this is clearly all a bit of kerfuffle to feed her need for drama/focus on her).

Think of your children and your need to support them and try to hold tough.

OP why can't you say No to her coming to stay?

She'llgo on the guilt trip Cava and just make me feel awful. It's complicated. She's probably in tears to her friends right now about how horrible I'm being.

It makes me feel so angry and stupid that I can't. I don't have an assertive bone in my body.

But you've said you're at breaking point with the idea of her coming to stay, you have DC and a job to worry about.
Why are her needs more important than yours and your DCs?