Private school affordability - advice!

[jsemamma]

Hello,

Our DS has done fantastically and gotten an 11+ offer from one of the top London independent schools - we're so proud of him. However we seem to be in the difficult position of earning too much to be able to get a bursary, but in real terms having very limited disposable income, by the time we pay our mortgage and bills (we live in central London so mortgage payments are high).

We're now in the awful position of having to figure out what to do. DS absolutely adored the school, and would love to go to it - he is incredibly clever and very musical so would benefit hugely from everything it has to offer. He does understand though that financially it would be extremely difficult.

I wanted to ask those of you with children in top London independent schools (think fees around £31k per year) - how much disposable income per month do you realistically need to be able to cover the fees? Apart from music, are there extra charges for extracurricular activities like clubs and sports etc, or are these included in the fees?

Our household income is ~£130k gross and we have a fairly hefty mortgage. We also have another DC, and both DCs are currently in a state primary. We have one (old second-hand) car, don't take fancy holidays, and are not into luxuries. I realise every family is different, but just wondering whether we would be stretching ourselves far too much trying to give him this opportunity. Any advice welcome!

Not for any private school I know of, certainly not the two that my kids go to.

I guess in the end @jsemamma the question is how important is the house versus the schooling, as it sounds like it would be private school + downsize, or state school and keep the house?

I am not sure why you allowed him take the entrance exam, knowing your financial situation and the fact that there is another child..

It's better to explain that, whilst he has done very well, it just isn't feasible.

This is better than letting him go and then have to pull him out later.

Really? It's quite normal for all the independent schools I've had dealings with. Here's screengrabs from the fees web pages of 4 randomly chosen independent schools from around the country who all say they will charge extra for external exam fees. One random school website I looked at didn't mention this so I guess there must be some exceptions.

To be honest, I’m not 100% sure on our school, but I thought we would be getting charged. I’ve certainly heard of others charging, so it sounds like each school is different.

Sadly you can't afford it.

I think you were hoping for a bursary (as even at £130k you could still qualify). Prior to VAT and business rates being applied you may have got one but they are thin on the ground now and most aren't the full amount anymore, while scholarships are just a token amount.

Your DC will have worked very hard and been so happy when they were offered and I imagine you feel a bit impotent now and that you have let them down. Don't. You tried, you got as far as you did but it is not possible. Explain this and put together a plan of some extra curricular activities and/or holidays that you will do that you otherwise couldn't.

Don't beggar yourself over this and don't feel bad or sad.

As I said, not in either of the two my kids are at, so it must vary with school.

My advice would be that if you're asking you shouldn't be doing it. We did it, before VAT, and with some somewhat erratic grandparently support at a relatively affordable and very-clear-about-
extras school, but even though DD1 loved it and I have no regrets, I still think we were insane. It's not something you can easily change your mind about if it gets too expensive, and can have a huge impact on things like getting your next mortgage. There's always Y9 entry too.

I’m a single parent and earning less than £50k but own my (very small) house, and my child qualified for a small bursary. We have no luxuries and have had one foreign holiday in the past 7 years. Every school has different policies, but in our case it was based on income/assets and performance in the entrance test. They don’t take mortgage into consideration because they expect you to downsize, rather than support you based on your choice to buy an expensive house with huge mortgage.

For those that are scrimping and saving to send their child/ren private, have the children ever commented on this? Such as why X has a bigger house and they don’t? Or why Y can go on the ski trip and they can’t?

I went private (can’t afford for my lot) and my parents could afford it without too many sacrifices. But I do remember the girls who had the latest trainers and gadgets and feeling a bit envious.

No, not at all.
We were probably the poorest ones at DCs schools, there was some impressive wealth in some families whilst I only shop at Lidl. No comments ever, kids built happy and healthy friendships.
I admit I was too busy working mad hours and managing family life to spend much time with school mums, I know there were some friendship groups amongst parents and we weren't part of it much, but it never affected DCs.
Education was exceptional and this is all that mattered. I never regretted our choice.

My experience from my own family is that the impact can hit more post-school. The opportunities available to the children after university can really make the wealth difference hit home, and some people find that awkward and gravitate more towards uni friends etc. I think it depends a lot on how much it bothers them - but agree that kids rarely care about this much during their school years.

I was going to say this. Supportive engaged parents are the main thing, with the added benefit of availability of tutors and extra curricular classes, they should do fine.

We earn more than double, two children, and have decided we cannot afford private school. It’s also such a risk if it’s already a bit tight, what if fees go up significantly, another policy change, one of you loses your job etc.

Maybe it’s better to try and save that money each month, and split it between the two children for a house deposit later on

Yes although I don't regret one penny we have spent on DD she has significant SEN but well behaved and quiet so wasn't getting any support.

She was disappearing before our eyes at our local big comp, starting to tic, not speaking but now she is a happy confident young woman because of the support she receives.

But after all deductions and pension, you’re earning about maybe £11.4k a month? As tax is almost £10k a month. Private school for two is about £6k a month. Mortgage and bills, £4.5k and this can be a for a two bed flat. Travel to work for two about £500. Let alone travel for the kids to school. That leaves a few hundred for food and everything else. It’s not really realistic.

I who will be privately educating soon. It’s so out of reach

Yes absolutely in those circumstances, definitely worth it

@80smonster i pay for 2 on a £95K salary (single parent). I get 25% discount on each - so one part sibling discount, one part bursary. Costs after this are £4K a month. My home is paid outright, no car, very few holidays if ever. My clothes arent expensive in any way. Uniform is always second hand. Certainly the poorest/one of the poorest in the school (for example one paid £30K for a dining table recently, others have cooks/housekeepers. I would say the parents admire me for doing it alone but i never feel bad/ and i get on with all of them. My children are very popular and hard working kids. In your situation, i would definitely say do-able but youll need to cut back a lot. And ask about bursaries, you never know. In our school i was lucky to get 25% (and this was when i was out of work with no income coming in) but the bursar said they prioritise those in rental income. I guess if push came to shove, id be ok pulling them out of school and moving to state, but as long as i can do it, im keeping them there.

More likely, in my experience, is children growing up with an awareness that their parents are “scrimping and saving” (in quotation marks because obviously most parents could live on gruel and still not be able to afford private school) and feel a constant sense of obligation that they have to “get the most out of it” and follow a preordained path…

Really disagree with you on this. Cannot disagree with you enough.

I am eternally grateful to my parents for the sacrifices they made that have allowed me to experience opportunities I would never have had access to.

They did not pre-ordain any path for me. In fact, they actively supported some “off path” endeavours.

They were open and honest in their communication and we had frank dialogue about the “cost” of the “sacrifices”. I love them and I am forever grateful. I hope I am replicating the same open and honest dialogue with my girls.

Not all pvt school parents are pushy, domineering and lacking in empathy. Most just want to do the best they can with what they have for their DC because they love them.

Affordability is within grasp of most. Its only how you've positioned yourself that determines if its doable or not.

Someone mentioned 3k a month fees, pick a cheaper one, we did, even with vat added to what ours currently charges we are no where near that, and its a wonderful school.

Big mortage? Change house. Move. Even in london there is affordability.

Two hire purchase cars? Loose one, or both, buy a decent runaround.

Most middle class families these days have outstretched / overburdened themselves with big mortgages and stuff. We are guilty of that too, tbh! But in our case we did loose the two £500 a month BMWs and bought a fiesta for the school run a second hand passat for the family days out.

Instantly, there was a monthly grand back in the pocket. Plus the insurance savings!

Seems ive started a trend too as a friend of ours have just 'downsized' from their two lease electric cars to a modest petrol and a diesel, in order to afford a holiday each year. These guys earn more than me!

Silly little examples, i know. But on a decent salary it is not unaffordable, choices can be made to achieve stuff in life. If you deem the 'stuff' to be important enough.

@Notonyours. I’m not saying that private school parents are pushy, demanding and lacking in empathy. If they were it would give their kids something to kick back against. I’m talking about loving and supportive parents who scrimp and save to send their children to private school. It’s incredibly difficult for their kids to reject what they know has been incredibly difficult for their parents, to say that A levels are not for them, they want to follow a trade, or a non academic passion, or whatever. And NOBODY should, as an adult, be incredibly grateful to their parents for anything except love and kindness.

Haha 😂 fair play!

But in all seriousness, in normal independent schools - you know, not the well known privates, but the ones that will be under insane pressure now with Labours policies - the normal middle class family is their bread and butter. I live near a great girls school and a co-ed prep and id say 50% of the cars dropping off are not 20-25 plates! Just hard working people who have chosen independent for whatever their reasoning is.

Given that you're fundamentally against of private schools you make this assumption based on what exactly?

But you said this:

”…feel a constant sense of obligation that they have to “get the most out of it” and follow a preordained path…”

That is wholly incorrect and you can’t really substantiate your claims. It’s just
what YOU think.

Are children who receive a house deposit or an inheritance in the same
category then?

Since in your view children should only ever be grateful for “love and kindness?”

Things are not always mutually exclusive; I love my parents because they are kind and loving to me and I also appreciate the decisions they made that helped me to have a bit more chance to try things I’d never have seen or known about.

How about you defer entry to 13+ so you have a couple of years to build up some savings and maybe reconsider your housing options