Private school affordability - advice!

[jsemamma]

Hello,

Our DS has done fantastically and gotten an 11+ offer from one of the top London independent schools - we're so proud of him. However we seem to be in the difficult position of earning too much to be able to get a bursary, but in real terms having very limited disposable income, by the time we pay our mortgage and bills (we live in central London so mortgage payments are high).

We're now in the awful position of having to figure out what to do. DS absolutely adored the school, and would love to go to it - he is incredibly clever and very musical so would benefit hugely from everything it has to offer. He does understand though that financially it would be extremely difficult.

I wanted to ask those of you with children in top London independent schools (think fees around £31k per year) - how much disposable income per month do you realistically need to be able to cover the fees? Apart from music, are there extra charges for extracurricular activities like clubs and sports etc, or are these included in the fees?

Our household income is ~£130k gross and we have a fairly hefty mortgage. We also have another DC, and both DCs are currently in a state primary. We have one (old second-hand) car, don't take fancy holidays, and are not into luxuries. I realise every family is different, but just wondering whether we would be stretching ourselves far too much trying to give him this opportunity. Any advice welcome!

Income of £130 gross but you’re looking at paying £31k for one child’s schooling? I can’t see how that would work in any level unless you’re suddenly going to add grandparents will be paying for 90%!

I think if you'd struggle with one child in private then funding two children would be impossible.
Would it really be fair on your younger child to plough all your resources into their older sibling?

It does sound very stretched but also don’t panic as posters on these forums love a ‘you can’t afford private school unless you earn at least £500k comment’. And the extras can add up but don’t have to (at my DS school uniform is all through thrift shop, sports are included and school trips are priced similar to state and not all mandatory!)
You need a spreadsheet and sit and work through it all. Your income, your outgoings, projected fees over the coming years. Where can you spend less, can you spend less, is it worth it? Only you can know if you can afford it really. Remember a lot of posters here are thinking of their own monthly expenditure which could be obscene!

We have a gross income of around £110 k and a child at an indy at £30k. But we don't have a mortgage as we downsized in order to afford the fees (School has good SEN provision). It's doable for us, but that is linked strongly to the no-mortgage. Even so we don't have alot of disposable income really. 10 year old third hand car. Very modest holidays, although this year we are going to visit family in Australia for 5 weeks - I've had to save up hard for more than 2 years to afford it. We don't have alot of give in our budget.

Also, perhaps critically- my DC does NO extra curriculars at all. He has autism and needs alot of downtime so we don't have any expenses at all on hobbies. My understanding is that music lessons etc are very expensive. He also does go on some school trips- he went to France last year but that was paid off over 12 months.

So i agree with others- you need a spreadsheet and a cool head thinking honestly.

I’m going to be possibly less kinder than some of the posters but what are you thinking?! It’s bizarre - you need at least £35k NET?! So figure it out yourself like a PP said you’re looking at £2,500 net a month just for fees. It’s not complicated maths here!!!!

Our household income is over twice yours and we can’t afford it for 2 kids (2 years apart) - we have no family support and also a big mortgage. One child would be fine but we have 2! The fees go up year on year. And I couldn’t risk having to pull them out of school if I lost my job or wanted to change it.

In my experience there are always “extras” to pay for.
We sent DD private on a lot less than your income. However we sat her down and explained the expensive trips that her friends were likely to be sent on would not be happening for her ( abroad, skiing etc) She did all the cheap day trips.
And we did without a lot of things as a family.
If you are serious about this school for your kids you possibly would have to move out of your current house. It also depends on your state school options locally. A clever child “should” do well anywhere, but MH is a huge factor ( and why we paid)
Maybe your alternative is to cost out the enrichment activities like music and source them privately.
Remember as well fees will rise each year. 6th form nearly broke us!

We have joint income circa £180k gross, no mortgage and an expensive hobby of circa £15k per year. We have 2 kids. We were paying 2 x prep school fees at £20k each. Since vat etc that has now increased to £27k each..
Luckily we have moved one to state grammar and the other is moving from independent to state sixth form. We didn't go abroad for a holiday last year nor anything more than 3 nights camping.

I totally understand now why people frantically tutor to get into the grammar.

The pros are:

• FREE
• teaching is far superior (in our cases)
• more ambitious cohort
• brighter cohort (selective v bums on seats)

The cons are:

• class of 28 rather than 20
• all parents evening online. Some teachers never reply to emails
• there's only an A sports team, if you don't make there there's no fixtures (note the grammar school much better than our local comp where there are no sports fixtures)
• sport relies on training outside school

burningoutt wowzer what are you spending your money on?

Another76543 I think it's not quite as grim as you are painting.. every school we've been to has had a second hand uniform shop where you can buy usually almost everything for 25-50% of the cost.
Sports equipment if you have sporty kids you will have all this junk anyway and again hand me downs from siblings / cousins etc.
Holidays We told DD sorry we can't afford them and that was that.
Our schools no charges for books but you pay for lunches and public exams.
Transport is quite expensive and costs us about £1.5k a year.

If you have £95k after tax and the mortgage is 1/3rd of that you have £60kish left. If you spend £30k on school fees that leaves you £30k for everything else in life including second child. It's a very frugal life style + state school for second child.
I wouldn't do it.

I don’t think that the OPs son going to private school is affordable on their incomes; ours is similar (not central London) and I don’t think we will be sending ours.

However the quoted post is a myth to be honest. Many do OK, coming out with decent but not remarkable grades and many don’t. Gifted children tend to do well wherever but they are few and far between. Your average common or garden fairly clever kid emerges from most state schools with good enough grades. But if you look at the comparisons between 7+ at GCSE in the state sector and the private sector it isn’t a given bright children will do well anywhere.

@jsemamma

Please don't underestimate the costs mentioned by the poster I have quoted.
The uniform requirements themselves are so expensive.
Trips are also a huge extra cost and a lot of music / drama etc lessons are all extras.

Also think of your 2nd child. You MIGHT be able to scrape it for your 1st DC but what will you do for your second in just a few short years.

I totally understand your dilemna though. You earn good money and your child has done well and it feels like you should be able to do this for them, right?

However, unless you have a back up (grandparents?) or are expecting some massive windfall (and soon), I don’t think it’s enough for London schools for 2 kids (and you really have to think of both your DC - cant emphasise this enough).

Insane that people earning a quarter of a million pounds think they can't send two kids to private school!

It wouldnt be acceptable to send one child and not the other. Sounds like you can't afford the fees. It would be a sad life for everyone living on the breadline to afford private school fees.

You can’t afford this on the basis that you cannot afford to pay £62k a year when your other child is older.

Most kids are automatically entered for an academic scholarship when they sit the entrance. If your son didn’t get one, and the fees are a massive stretch, I’d say it’s probably not the right choice. Children are also awarded scholarships for music (you mention that your son is musical), often this would mean that a child has two instruments at grade 5. Fees can rise by 5-10% each year, so that too would be concerning. Any chance the grandparents would pay the fees?

So I agree it sounds mad, but the cost for two plus a London mortgage would mean a hammering on lifestyle.

£4k/m mortgage (~£800k borrowing) = ~£50k a year.

School fees at £30k per child = £60k a year.

This is around £20k left over (£1.6k a month) for everything else - which probably isn’t the lifestyle anticipated when earning a quarter of a million quid a year (!).

I mean it’s insane that two day private school places is now more or less 50% of the take home pay on £250k a year…! I am very confused as to who the market for this is going to be in future. And as for boarding… a completely different audience.

Apologies if I repeat advise I’ve not read the entire thread. In your position I’d speak to the school and explain your situation. There are several companies that will pay schools frees upfront, requiring you to repay on a monthly basis. Of course they charge for the service but that would make it possible to spread the cost over a longer period of time.
You could also speak with a good mortgage broker, they might be able to suggest ways in which you could manage your mortgage better and/or sell/downsize. Or you could consider a different school, one that offers more bursary support. Good luck. A good private school is worth it in my opinion.

I live in the north, gross household income of £170k, net monthly income of £7,700 and monthly mortgage of £1,250.

I’d say I can’t afford £31k pa school fees in a way that I’d want to live. It would mean no holidays, no house maintenance spend and cutting back on food and hobbies spend and potentially reducing pension contributions. We couldn’t do it at all for a second child at the same time.

I am the main earner by a long way which is not tax efficient. Salary is £10k/month after tax and pension. Mortgage is £4k (for a 4 bed terrace in a non fancy area of London - standard for people who don’t have family help), childcare and kids activities £1k, bills and food £1k, £4k/month (or £16k/term) left over for all discretionary spending including savings and holiday. Where I am in London it’s pushing £10k/term per child now, never mind when my kids get there, so already unaffordable.

We paid for prep school, will now pay for tuition for 11+ from year 3-year 6, to try and wiggle a grammar school place. Tough because it’s become even more competitive since the VAT addition. Contextually, it’s probably never been easier to get a place at a good private school, they are worried about bums on seats and future viability - especially those not part of a group.

For me that would be 100% no way on affordability and associated stress.

I also don't get people sending one child private and not the other unless there was a v specific reason, like one was struggling or being bullied, not just to give one a (perceived) leg up and not the other. Personally for me its important to treat my kids as fairly as possible...

I think it's very very hard to draw conclusions based on grade %s. I think bright, self-motivated children who have a supportive, secure and ambitious family environment will do well anywhere. This family environment part is sadly lacking for many children and will heavily correlate with people who can / can't afford private (and also with people who can / can't manage to jump through all the required hoops for faith schools) - hence you are not comparing like for like.

Fees will increase by 50% between y7 and y13.