Disappointment our third child can’t join her siblings at the same school

[sopae]

We have two kids at a selective school in London. It is very competitive to get in to. Both kids sat the 4+ and have been there since reception and are doing really well. We have just found out that our third has not been accepted for reception next year. I am so sad that she can’t join her siblings.

I don’t blame the school, obviously they have to draw a line and we chose to put them all in for 4+. I also know it is a ridiculous age to try and assess. She won’t even be 4 until the summer and is developmentally a completely normal 3 year old. She can try again at 7+. But I am still heartbroken that she will have at least three years separate to the others, and her siblings are so disappointed too.

Anyone else have this experience and can help me put some perspective on it. I know there are bigger issues but right now I am feeling so sad about it.

This is crazy testing a 3year old. It seems just as easy to be swayed by coaching as the 11+ (again actually for 10 year old children) learning how to leave a parent with a complete stranger in a strange place, write name, certain physical exercises. It will suit certain children on a random day.

Love your children for the individuals that they are. Try not to let your sons look down on your daughter.(other posters saying don’t tell them if they are further up the school they presumably know it is a test as their sister did not pass because they will have seen what happens each year.

It's annoying when schools don't have sibling priority but it's not worth overthinking. 4+ assessments are fairly meaningless - when I think back to my student child's peer group at 4 and what they are all up to at 21, only the real outliers in each direction were identifiable as particularly clever or particularly dim.

Knowing what I know now (kids are about to turn 18 and 21), I’d actually never have put my first 2 children in the school OP has. My eldest passed entrance tests at 8 for a top 20 Uk girls independent and the pressure started immediately. My youngest fails to pass the screening at 4. They both went to ths same co-ed non selective but child centred independent school when they were 11-16 and the state 6th forms.

However, they are both grade A*/A students and have offers/places at the 5 universities for their subjects. So long as they enjoy school and are covering the fundamentals until age 11 - reading/writing/maths and exploring science, arts and humanities from a curious perspective, they will do fine. There is too much drive in this country to start hothousing our children from 4yo and then we wonder why 25% of under 25yos are depressed/anxious/signed off work?

My DH was thought to be nothing special/average at school, but when doing O Levels decided that ast it was rather important he should pull his finger out - 11 grades As, 4 grade A at A level and on to Cambridge. Before GCSEs his time was filled with cricket, county swimming (mum was coach), music lessons. His love of sport and the arts defines him as an adult, and his degree has lead to a rich (and very well paid) career.

It’s heartbreaking to be disapointed in a 4yo’s inability to get into this school. I’d be moving them all, personally. Shared school culture and history, interconnected friendships via siblings has been far more valuable to my children.

there won’t be a conversation with a 3 year old about it. They probably won’t even remember the assessment. One day they might ask ‘mummy why am i not going to brothers’ school?’ ‘oh because we like this one better for you because it has a nicer playground / your bestie goes there etc’

Also, it’s not a test assessment. There will be toys scattered around and the kids will
play and hopefully engage with the teachers that are there. It really isn’t that deep. It helps if your child likes speaking to adults they’ve never met.

OP, you will likely get a place before reception is over. Make sure they know you want the place.

You must have known it was a risk, and there must be many other families where not all siblings got in

they wouldn’t have liked my ds he barely talked at 3. Now at 13 and doing fantastically well at school. Bonkers to assess at their age. The school must be very prestigious and picky indeed to be prepared to piss existing parents off in this way.

I agree. She's not got in for some kind of reason and I genuinely believe, schools at this level look for a type. Forcing/ begging them to let your child in, doesn't always result in your child flourishing.

I speak from my own and witnessing many north London parents' experience at Highgate, Channing, UCS, South Hampstead and the rest.

search for a school that welcomes your child with open arms and sees her as a little person in her own right x

Yeah, but there’s no way the 4+ is going to tell you any of this! I think that’s a misconception of some parents in the educational arms race bubble - I imagine it makes paying the fees more palatable.

My niece and nephew passed the 4+ to a selective prep school. I love them both very dearly, but they are not magical unicorn children - they are very similar in ability and temperament to my same-age children who go to state school. Not sitting the 4+ does not automatically make swathes of children feral idiots.

I’m curious, what does the 4+ test look like? How does the school academically assess 3/4 year olds who can’t read or write yet much beyond their name? Sounds like nonsense.

She'll probably be happier at a different school if she isn't overly studious. The key thing at this age is that they enjoy school and social interaction. None of this has any bearing on what she will go on to be capable of.

Since her birthday is in July, can you defer her and keep her in nursery for a year and try again next year?

Lots of July babies get deferred.

i do not agree that all of the children in these super selective prep schools are from the top echelons of attainment and intelligence. I would suggest that they are from the top echelons of parental wealth and ambition. I am not suggesting that the children are not intelligent and able, but the advantages they have access to is undeniable.

I also know a number of children who have been pressured to undertake examinations for numerous London selective schools. One such child ‘failed’ all of the assessments, and the impact this has has on his confidence is palpable. This system can be so damaging.

I am sorry for your daughter and I am sure that you are doing all you can to reassure her. If you do opt to keep her brothers where they are, you could tell all three of them that you have found a school that you think will be a better fit for her and try to spin it as a positive decision as opposed to a failure. I would also not reapply for the 7
plus. Hopefully, she will be settled and happy where she is, and she will be old enough to understand and be affected if she is not offered a place again.

There's a 4 plus??!

4 year olds shouldn't be taking assessments.

Is it a private school?

If so could you afford another good school?

I can understand you being upset though, my older two went to (separate) sink schools, one did well in spite of, and the other is now sitting GCSEs with an online school after being violently assaulted.

Fortunately I was able to get my daughter who is the youngest into the "better" school in the area.

If not though just focus on having another go at 7, also if you haven't already, ask if they have a waiting list and if so phone regularly as people do leave.

Well I have never heard of a 4 plus! Seems mad to me .Can you not meet with the head and explain your position?I think as PP said up thread that a place may become avaliable in the meantime ,you want to have your place marked .Where will DC go to School ? Will it be a long journey Maybe mention this as well .Good Luck!

Op as pp have said you may get her in later, but actually it may be a blessing if she isn’t ready (or not ready just yet) for the pace.

My dc are both at a calmer 3-18 setting and the attainment there is very good, but there is not the level of academic hothousing you get in some schools. Works better for some dc.

What the fresh hell is the 4+?

"educational arms race bubble". Love that expression!

I think it sounds like a private school where the children are assessed to see if they would be a good fit.
My niece goes to a private school and they had some sessions before the application at their forest school so they could spend time with the children, they looked at her speech, simple maths problems etc My sister was worried she wouldn’t be selected to get in, I said surely if they were paying they weren’t going to not take her but apparently they would not have offered a place if she hadn’t been bright….
If that had been the case though she would have gone to another private school where they don’t assess them at 4.
The OP just needs to pick a different school with a similar level of standards but which isn’t so selective.
Until she went through the process I assumed that private schools took students based on their parents ability to pay the fees.

All those saying move the other two….why?? They’re settled and happy, why should they suffer to make a point on behalf of their younger sibling? It won’t make a difference either, the school aren’t gonna be that devastated about them leaving that they do a u turn and suddenly accept the youngest.

Selective education for small children, whose age you can count in months without it being a ridiculous number, is wrong. I say this as a child who went to a selective senior school and sent my DC to a non selective prep and a selective senior.

honestly appalled that people subject their 3 and 4 year olds to this. (FWIW I was educated at highly selective secondary schools with scholarships). Private prep schools are a colossal waste of money and selecting children at the age of 4 is just….I have no words for it.

this is harsh, but probably actually there is a lot to be said about it! I hadn’t even thought about it in that way.

Deciding if a child is "bright" at 4 yrs old seems unwise tbh.

harsh comment from you? No, you don’t say!

I know!!
34 years in education and I'm flabbergasted at the idea of selective assessment at age 3.
Impossible to predict academic aptitude, or anything else really at this age.
Sounds like a set up to cater for parental egos more than student capabilities.

Sorry OP, I've no advice, I just hope your three year old goes on to be happy and fulfilled at school and is never, ever impacted by the absolutely ridiculous idea that she didn't quite make the cut at age 3.

Apologies for not being aware. But what the heck is a 4+ ?
What sort of criteria are the schools using to decide if a child should or can join them or not. At 4. Especially if their siblings are at the school.
Mad.