Disappointment our third child can’t join her siblings at the same school

[sopae]

We have two kids at a selective school in London. It is very competitive to get in to. Both kids sat the 4+ and have been there since reception and are doing really well. We have just found out that our third has not been accepted for reception next year. I am so sad that she can’t join her siblings.

I don’t blame the school, obviously they have to draw a line and we chose to put them all in for 4+. I also know it is a ridiculous age to try and assess. She won’t even be 4 until the summer and is developmentally a completely normal 3 year old. She can try again at 7+. But I am still heartbroken that she will have at least three years separate to the others, and her siblings are so disappointed too.

Anyone else have this experience and can help me put some perspective on it. I know there are bigger issues but right now I am feeling so sad about it.

@FriendsWithoutBenefits12this is a private school so everybody who applies pays money, it is not a differentiating factor. We have two schools like that in my town which go 4-18 and send 30% off to Oxbridge after A Levels. They are naturally sought after and entry is therefore competitive at every stage (4+, 7+, 11+, 13+, 16+) as they just get far more applications than places. So they have to make decisions and say no to some children.

There are no bursaries at 4+ but some (way less competitive/religious schools) do have schemes where they offer discounts some categories such as families of the Priory or military personnel.

If you wanted all 3 to go to the same school, you should’ve chosen a school with a policy that favours siblings. Certainly if it’s anything like the ones I know in West London, and it may even be them, you’ve got no chance.

It must feel like a real punch in the gut for your toddler to essentially fail an assessment. Remember though this is the harsh judgement you’re setting them all up for, and each of them could fail at any next step. It’s a miserable competitive existence in those girls schools. I have literally watched one of my neighbours daughters have her self-esteem shredded and her personality lose all its shine (by parents and the school), and the mum doesn’t understand why the child is so self flagellating and prone to chronic picking - a classic perfectionist trait

But you know what will happen to yours? They’ll go to exactly the same types of universities and you’ll probably find the one that was least academic ends up being most successful. In the meantime, your pick up and drop-offs are just going to be marginally inconvenient.

If it's is the schools I'm thinking, the competition is FIERCE and the places like gold-dust. I think that the head would know you weren't serious about taking the older kids out.

I know it’s probably been suggested 70 times already but can you send them next year?

Another year in preschool might do them good. Just painting etc and having fun.

This. The school have had their chance to have your wonderful child and the achool missed out. She will go somewhere else and thrive

No, I think 90% of posts on here will be about how awful 4+ testing is (including mine) which is not helpful to the OP and I imagine making her feel a bit shit.

She lives in a world where this kind of thing is normal and she’d be better off getting advice from people who are the same.

The evidence base for 4+ testing would be really interesting to see. They will be very much only getting a snapshot of ability that could be very different even just a few weeks later. While they may well be getting those with good potential they will also definitely be missing children of equal or more ability to do well a year or 2 down the line. I would guess there is some confirmation bias at play and the children they do pick will prove them right by achieving well later down the line....(after several years of intensive teaching and tutoring).

From my data set (3dc) I am not sure any would have been selected at that age. In fact my oldest was flagged up as 'not school ready' in preschool because she wasn't keen to do formal writing 🙄. She has been academically advanced almost ever since, including getting a 9 in a gcse she did early and only studied for a year. Interestingly, the children she has been with since that age have all developed incredibly differently. Some of the most advanced in EYFS are no longer streets ahead (although mostly still in top or middle sets) and some that couldn't pick up reading in R are now top set high fliers. My middle is a summer born later bloomer and was basically a baby at this age. She's also top sets and gunning for all 7-9 at gcse now. Youngest was persistently behind expectations for ks1 and is now gds across the board in ks2.

Whatever. I think selective education at this stage is nonsense and the proponents of it buy into the smoke and mirrors and snobbery that goes alongside.

The comments on here that those of us who call out this is are somehow only doing so because we are inexperienced or unfamiliar with the sector are risible. Believe me, you can be well acquainted and still see it for what it is.

No, 4+ testing is not normal

If she is a summer born I would consider putting her through the 4+ again for starting September 2927. See if the head will accept a deferred place - many schools do with summer born children.

This👆

This may be true.

It may also be useful to step outside the bubble for a moment.

Those who exist in these fevered circles need respite and a reality check that the brutal frankness of mnetters can provide.

Many of us live in areas of the country where none of these schools exist and all dc go to their local half arsed state primary.

The dc from those primaries can and do go on to excel and succeed and attend university alongside the products of these high pressure systems.

4 seems a very young age to be trying to be so selective especially as your little one is summer born.
Personally I would not have gone down that route for your others at the same age, at 4 they are little more then babies.
Our middle child has just taken the 11 plus as he wanted to take it, despite the nearest Grammar school being a 50 minute journey away.
He has always been very bright and one of the oldest children in his year, but I would not have allowed him to attend a selective school or try to get into one at a younger age then 11.
His brother is the next school year up, summer born and attends a ‘normal’ secondary school, he struggled academically in primary school and would not have passed the 11 plus.
He attended tutoring sessions to help in the subjects he struggled with and now he is in the top 1/3 of most subjects, if he was to take an exam now he would probably my pass it but he is happy where is he is.
My point is at 4 years old so many children are at different stages, ones who are a little behind by 11 years old have had the chance to grow and mature.
I would speak to the head and see if there is any leeway and if not try again at 7, if she doesn’t get in at 7 and if funds allow I would send her to a private school so there is not as much of a gap between their schooling.
If our middle child does get into the Grammar school we have said that we will put the same amount of money that we will have to spend on our middle child’s bus fare etc into an account for our other children so that they can access extra tutoring, extra curricular activities.
At the ages ours are at, there is no resentment between them as they are all very different, in our situation only one is likely to attend a Grammar unlike the majority attending in your household which will make the difference more obvious.
I don’t think you’ll gain anything by moving the others but you need to be able to even up things somehow, it’s was always a very risky strategy choosing a school the selects the high achievers at 4 ☹️

Ds was a summer born twin - at aged 4 he failed to meet the majority of the early years criteria - he did not thrive in the local overly competitive state primary, they made it clear he was immature and way behind his peers and his progress was disappointing. I moved him to a school that many considered as failing academically, but the pastoral care was excellent and that's what he needed.

Ds he took his time to develop, he matured slowly (a bit like his Dh, I hear). He developed remarkable resilience as he failed and got back up again to succeed.

He's now on a Grad Scheme with one of the Big 4 and that resilience in coming in very handy.

Tests on a 4 year old don't predict future success. Try to chill a bit OP - I wish I'd learned to chill more when I was bringing my kids up.

It is normal for the world in which the OP lives. Its not normal in my world and I find it quite horrific......but for people with money who are looking for what they believe are the very best schools, it is absolutely normal

I never knew the 4+ was a thing and I could not imagine subjecting any of my kids to that especially at such a young age, not making the grade could be really upsetting and this is a prime example of it. My older one at secondary and younger two didn’t/wont be doing the 11+ either I don’t agree with it at all and making children “compete” it just mental!

if kids are academic they’ll thrive and if they aren’t so academic, no amount of money will change this and just because they aren’t top of the class doesn’t mean the won’t find their niche, maybe in dance, sports, art etc….

if you are absolutely sure you want them to go to this ridiculous establishment where 3 year olds are “assessed” - I would threaten to remove the other 2 and they might have a
re-think but I’d move them all to somewhere that doesn’t have such ridiculous expectations- I’d not give my money to them but why upset all 3 of your kids over such a ridiculous assessment - it’s batshit crazy

Yes I failed the 11+ but I went back into education as an adult. I have GCSEs and A levels all grade A, a degree and a Masters in teaching.

So her siblings have to adapt to a new school? They may well have taken places from other siblings when they passed.OP was hapoy enough with the system when her dc benefittedp

If this is the coed school I think it might be I worked there some years ago. The junior school is incredibly oversubscribed for a few places. To make it clearly coed places were awarded 50:50 between boys and girls. Girls at this age tend to be better with language and communication than boys. Therefore some of the girls who were rejected would actually have done better than some of the boys who were accepted. I don't know if this is still the case, but it may be of some comfort to parents whose girls have been “ rejected”.

Agree. Just read the test instructions and it’s bloody shocking!

What a depressingly sad situation all round.
Your young daughter could very well feel as if she’s failed (maybe not now but as she gets older) and your two older children are in a school that selects the ‘elite’ and could very well end up looking down on others.
What a disgusting set up.

The obvious solution is to take your 2 older children out and put them all into the same school. Please don’t do this to your younger child, she will forever feel second best beneath her siblings. That’s far more important than going to the ‘best’ school.

Defer a year?

Just a bit of balance for all the “shocking schools select at 4+” gang. Clearly, tutoring for 2 year olds etc is madness but from the school’s point of view, they have to choose somehow. Popular London schools are heavily oversubscribed, so they either choose their pupils or they have first come first served. Wetherby does (or at least when my children were little did) this so fathers would dash from the hospital and drop the enrolment form through the letterbox of the school, as the child had to be born to go on the list. If your child was born late in the month, even this could be too late (as they set a number per month). So either it relies of people being in the know and getting in there first, or the school take a look at the children.

It's very common but these selective schools are coming under increasing pressure to fill places with the VAT. My kids are both at selective N London private schools that do similar assessments and new kids have started every year. Make sure she is on the list for an occasional place and she'll probably be there within a year or two.

Our friends did this with their third child and managed to get a place. She was also quite young for the year. However, it was completely the wrong environment for her, she really struggled in pre-prep as she just wasn't as mature as the other children, who were all older, or just super advanced.
It really knocked her confidence and she's ended up with lots of issues with anxiety. They had to eventually move her anyway.

I'd put her in another school and see how she goes.