Disappointment our third child can’t join her siblings at the same school

[sopae]

We have two kids at a selective school in London. It is very competitive to get in to. Both kids sat the 4+ and have been there since reception and are doing really well. We have just found out that our third has not been accepted for reception next year. I am so sad that she can’t join her siblings.

I don’t blame the school, obviously they have to draw a line and we chose to put them all in for 4+. I also know it is a ridiculous age to try and assess. She won’t even be 4 until the summer and is developmentally a completely normal 3 year old. She can try again at 7+. But I am still heartbroken that she will have at least three years separate to the others, and her siblings are so disappointed too.

Anyone else have this experience and can help me put some perspective on it. I know there are bigger issues but right now I am feeling so sad about it.

Most definitely and not a route I would have gone down even if i could have afforded it…
As my previous post mentioned one of mine is likely headed to grammar school as was his choice, his brother is in a state secondary.
In the league table of our county the top 5 schools were discussed at the secondary school our son attends, the top 2 are Grammar schools and then the secondary school our child attends is number 4 on the list and they are very proud of this.
He struggled in primary and had delayed speech etc at 4/5 years old he was not ready for school at all.
He’s now in the top 1/3 of most subjects, is funny, articulate and creative. He would have definitely been written off at 4 by a selective school, and has found life harder than his brother who naturally excels at everything academically and sporting.
But that struggle has given him more respect for things and resilience, he doesn’t expect everything to fall into his lap (which is a trait his brother has) and is probably more well rounded because of it.

I find it bizarre that a school academically assesses a 3/4 year old, in the first place! I'm sure your child is perfectly normal, academically for her age by any other standards. If this was an 11+ or even a 7+, I'd understand it more but for a 3/4 year old, utterly batshit.

it seems unfortunately you do have the words for it. Op would rather you didn’t. Same goes for most posters here.

I lived in south east London and my son “failed” his 4+ and he went to a non-selective prep. Teachers all said he wouldn’t pass the 11+ and I didn’t want him to sit it anyway. I wanted his self-esteem to be in tact - he is dyslexic. Got mostly 8s in his GCSE now doing Maths, Chemistry, Physics for A level. Yah-boo to the wretched 4+. It can be incredibly damaging so BE CAREFUL

This 😮
Surely at that age it’s main purpose is trying to screen out as many pupils with any degree of neurodivergence/learning difficulties/developmental delays than anything else.

Is this a fee-paying school? I presume so.

I'd also recommend requesting a meeting with the head teacher. As a parent of 2 current students, they're obliged to see you. I'd emphasise how pleased you are with the progress of the older two, how happy they are there, but how disappointed "as a family" you are, that the younger one can't also join.
Ask about a waiting list. But I'd also end with a dangled, "if we can't make this work, I fear we may have to look for somewhere that can accommodate all three... Anyway, thanks for your time!"
For the sake of losing the fees of two children, for the sake of adding one in... You might be pleasantly surprised. After all, for all that these fee paying schools are all "ooh! lovely education!" they're also businesses that need to turn a profit.

Oh come off it, how can a 4 year old be a high achiever?

I was as thick as mince at 4 FF to end of school and I was off to a RG to do a law degree

The school may think that the July born child is not ready for the school...at this point. School years are cruel.

Speak to them. They may well say that they will be more than willing to consider them at 7+ or for an occasional place, but admitting him at this point would not be constructive. These schools will be looking for a level of maturity (the ability to sit still!) that not all kids have. Sending him somewhere gentler, at least till you know more about him, might be best for him.

The other reasons, which I assume doesn't apply to you, why a third child might be rejected were either because parents were flakey about paying fees on time, or because the elder siblings were either struggling or their behaviour was causing issues.

I sat for one as a child in the 1950s. My mother wanted me to go to the French Lycée. Needless to say I failed lol

I'm only half way through the thread so apologies if this has been said but I'm going out now and have to say I am reading in horror. I've got as far as the link about intensive literacy and numeracy packages for 4 year olds and nursery reports being written in code that can break an application. This is everything that is wrong with education in this country. We don't value children and we don't value teachers and their professional knowledge. Everything is about class, snobbery, competition and division - even segregation. it's sickening.

Lots of children don't go to the same school as their siblings. it's only a problem if you frame it as one and let her feel that she's failed something - she hasn't, she's only 3! That said, logistically it's easier for pick-up and drop off if they can be together, so try what others have suggested. If it doesn't work be bright and breezy and find her the best school you can and encourage her to be excited about it.
I do think also that posters feeling you can just pull your other kids out of the school where they have friends and which they enjoy are completely disregarding how traumatic this could be for them. Likewise if your youngest likes the school she ends up at and you then just pull her out of it to join her siblings. Kids have feelings, they're not puppets.

I can't advise on practicalities though I agree that you have little to lose by speaking to the school, but I would urge caution regarding having a child who is the "odd one out". We have relatives who sent all but one of their children to very prestigous independent schools. The one who went to the local state school actually did perfectly well academically and has a decent degree from a decent university and a good job. A good job on a different continent. They have zero contact with their parents and what would probably best be described as a complicated relationship with their siblings. Obviously there's more to it than that and I'm not saying that every family who makes a similar decision will have the same outcome, but I don't think there is any doubt that in my relative's case, being marked out as different (and let's face it, the perception was inferior) from an early age had a huge impact on their life. And it was those feelings rather than the actual quality of the education that did the most damage.

💯

If she is a July baby, sitting a 4+ at age of 3.5, could/would you consider delaying her start by a year?

Obviously not a decision to take lightly, and there would be no guarantee that she would get in next year

But it's an option depending on whether you think she is ready for starting school in September

If you think she would do well starting school in September then it's not something I'd choose to do, but if you are borderline as to whether she is ready, then it's an option

A last post from me, thanks to those who have added constructive comments.
I posted this on the private school board (wrongly) thinking it would mostly be seen by those who have experience of private schools or are familiar with the 4+ entry system which most of the private schools near us operate. It wasn’t intended to be a debate about the rights and wrongs of 4+ and I fully understand that people have very different views on that which they are entitled to of course.

To clear a few things up - our daughter doesn’t know she was assessed, she thought she went to play at her siblings school to try it out. As she hasn’t got a place she will stay at her current school which runs to 7 and in the meantime we will decide what school is the best fit for her at 7 (which may not be her sibling’s school). Her siblings do not know that she didn’t pass the assessment - we told them that we think her current school is the best school for her for reception.

I do think some of the posts warning of family estrangement, mental health problems etc are extreme. Our daughter is loved beyond compare and we are confident that this won’t affect her in the slightest.

In posting I was not asking for advice on how to get an exception for her, but rather some reassurance from others who might have been in a similar scenario and saw it work out for the best (which I am sure it will).

In your situation OP, I would find a good private all girls' school and put her there. Then let the rhetoric be that an all girls education was better for her, and never mention she failed an exam aged 3.

"You failed a test when you were 3" 😭😂
Sorry, it's no laughing matter really but yes that's how ridiculous to me this whole thread is.
I've never heard of a 4+ before and my immediate reaction was WTF, there's an exam/test for 4 year olds?!
That's bad enough but when you've got several kids and you're pitting them against each other like this "intelligence wise" then that's even worse.

I'd have a meeting with the school. If she is a July baby the difference between her and rhe September babies who presumably took the tests at the same time, will be huge. But should reduce as time goes on. Ask if this has been factored into the marking

4+? Jesus Christ.... Assessing children who aren't even four is insanity. Talk about setting children up for hot housing, anxiety and stress....

It came up in trending topics for me, I l didn't even know there was a private school board.
It's a public forum, you're going to get a range of opinions.
Including those that don't agree with you.

There will be a good school which is really right for your third child. I would ask for the reasons she hasn't been accepted, she might not have been far off, and what they say might help you choose. Fortunately she is too young to think about this very much/long if you avoid making a 'thing' about it in front of her or the others. Later if she asks, you can cheerfully tell her the truth...that you and her dad took great care in finding the best school for her ...just as you did for her siblings. No need to tell her she 'failed' a test for 4 year olds which doesn't decide later outcomes anyway, then her confidence will remain high.
The other school could have turned out a poor fit for her.
On the other hand you may find the school you choose for her is such a good fit for the whole family that you choose to move the others there while they are still young
If you choose another good school now she may well be thriving there and doing well by the time the other school's 7+ arrives. In any event I wouldn't make a big thing of her hopefully getting in at 7. She won't loose her confidence at age 4 over this if handled correctly, but if you raise hopes and make it clear you prefer the other siblings school for her if/when she takes the 7+, if she still doesn't get in that could destroy her confidence and make her feel second best. (I speak as a teacher with experience in both the system and independent sector)
Happy school hunting op. There is a school out there that is just right for your DD. 💐

It is not normal - I live in this world. Normally for that age group it’s a case of signing them up (with a few days of birth). The testing typically comes in at 7

only a few very selective and high pressure prep schools do this - eg Latymer prep and the ‘feeder’ for St Paul’s girls

The only "4+" assessment ice ever known is habs, and they seem to watch the kids play and see how they socialise. And also get a judge if the parents.

In London 4* assessments exist as these school simply are oversubscribed and it’s completely normal. Yes Habs is one of the school that does this - it’s more like a playdate.

I feel sorry for the OP as all she wanted was to get some reassurance - if you want to comment about the 4+ and how inappropriate it is then why don’t you start your own thread in the AIBU section. Understand it’s a public forum but it doesn’t help her at all! That’s why people don’t post on mumsnet anymore.

It’s probably for the best she didn’t get in despite this being annoying. We have a girl in our class who parents “beg” to get in and they did but she’s struggling emotionally and academically and she’s august born.

Keeping her at her current school and re-assessing at 7 sounds like a sound plan.

Can I suggest that this might even be a better plan than your original one? It does sound like (apologies if I am wrong) that the main reason for wanting your DD to go to the same school as her siblings was to have all 3 children in the same school, rather than specifically because it was the best school for her.