Disappointment our third child can’t join her siblings at the same school

[sopae]

We have two kids at a selective school in London. It is very competitive to get in to. Both kids sat the 4+ and have been there since reception and are doing really well. We have just found out that our third has not been accepted for reception next year. I am so sad that she can’t join her siblings.

I don’t blame the school, obviously they have to draw a line and we chose to put them all in for 4+. I also know it is a ridiculous age to try and assess. She won’t even be 4 until the summer and is developmentally a completely normal 3 year old. She can try again at 7+. But I am still heartbroken that she will have at least three years separate to the others, and her siblings are so disappointed too.

Anyone else have this experience and can help me put some perspective on it. I know there are bigger issues but right now I am feeling so sad about it.

You are in an absolutely impossible situation.

Your older sons are settled and happy. You obviously don’t want to move them. You risk breaking their friendships and building a broken relationship with their sibling.

If your youngest doesn’t get in, they will always know that they are different and their opportunities in life will be different to their siblings. You risk a broken relationship with their siblings and a child who will need counselling.

This might sound very dramatic but I think
you have really fucked up! Therefore I feel the solution is drastic. You should never have run the risk of providing different opportunities for your children based on a test they sit at three, this will cause sibling rivalry that will last a lifetime and have a deep rooted cognitive emotional impact. For me after a meeting with the head, if I definitely couldn’t get my youngest in. I would sell my house and move. I would think of some reason to tell the the children (obviously a lie) and move them all and put them all in the same school to avoid the shit show you’ll have later in life.

That's mad ,and not in the child's best interests,not in the current siblings at the school best interests ...
How on earth can they pick and choose between children' like that

Nothing to add about the insanity of the 4+ assessments but Waldorf schools are not play-based equivalents to Montessori nurseries. There’s a whole, deeply weird philosophy underpinning their ‘method’ which parents should be fully aware of before exposing their children to it.

I think the risk of your daughter not getting in the 7+ and having the feeling of failure and not being as good as her brothers is higher than moving your sons to another school.

I guess it depends what you want from your children. If you want well rounded I’d personally pull them out, if you want successful at whatever cost then keep them there.

What a load of nonsense OP. Move all three. Life is unequal for siblings anyway don’t add to that - you can keep them together for primary school surely

OP, I think Mumsnet is probably the wrong place for advice on your situation. See if you can find a forum or discussion group specifically for private school parents and ask there. People will be more understanding and have more experience of what your options are.

OP, why would you put any of your children in this position?

I don't understand why a June cut-off is better than an August cut-off? Doesn't that just shift the problem, so that May and June children are in the position of being the youngest in the year, rather than the July and August borns?

I absolutely knew it would be London and now I see it’s south London I’ve got bets with myself as to what area it is! I won’t ask… I had similar with mine. It was easier as I have only got 2 children so one went and the other didn’t. I was (and am) adamant that the older child is not cleverer or ‘better’ than the younger and I just made clear within the family that there ‘wasn’t enough space this year’, not that DC2 had failed. I would think very carefully about putting your DC3 in fkr the 7+ as they we’ll be very settled in their other school by then abd you could be setting them up to fail, reinforcing an idea that they aren’t good enough to be at their sibling’s school. My DC2 went to another excellent local independent school and are very happy. It’s an absolute PITA frankly having them different places but it’s ok and DC2 is very happy and thriving. It’s fine, really. Don’t make it a big deal in front of the children. Let the big ones have their feelings but don’t make a big deal of it to them

I think there’s a private school board somewhere on here…

All you can do is speak to the Head. I think it will be impossible for you not to view the school very differently after this though, as their decision (based on the ridiculous test) is a real unkindness to your family and demonstrates an uncaring ethos. Good luck.

This is the private school board…..specifically created so that private school parents can discuss private school issues…..

To be fair I can see why you wouldn’t realise, this board seems to be constantly overrun with people who don’t use/like private schools at all!

Yes what a horrible school. It’s almost impossible to assess their so called ‘academic ability’ at age 3 so to not offer when her other two sisters are there and doing well is insane

‘At The Start
First, a child is typically led by the teacher into a separate classroom to conduct the test. You may not think this is part of the test, but the assessment has already begun. If a child is not comfortable with leaving the parent, and cries, or refuses to leave their parent, it is a strong indication that the child will not pass.’

This is pretty shocking! My DD wouldn’t have stood a chance and she’s October born!. She would have clung to me for dear life! I can’t believe they do this!

Sorry OP but i'm finding it difficult to sympathise. You've subscribed to this ridiculous notion that some children (at age 3?!) Are more valuable than others and allowed your children to be selected based on this principle. It's morally disgusting and totally flawed.

My dd I suspect would have failed this 'test' She would have been too emotionally immature at age 3 to have focussed and followed the instructions and might not even have been speaking particularly clearly by this age. By the time she was ready for school she was ready to absolutely thrive there. She took to reading like a duck to water. She is one of the most academically able in her class and loves learning. She is creative. She is confident to share her ideas. She is also very good physically and loves dancing. Most importantly she is kind, inclusive and funny and well loved by pretty much every kid she meets. I'm biased I know but I fail to see why any school wouldn't want her as part of their community. Nevertheless I reckon she would have failed the 4+ because she wasn't as good as some other kids. didn't fit their pathetically narrow minded narrative of what makes a toddler worth teaching and worth including in their learning community

To be honest the whole system sounds like it is just plain mean and snobby and not even evidence based. It goes completely against the principles of early years teaching and doesn't even necessarily select the best and brightest. However you've chosen it and now you're in this shit show. Your options are either move all 3 children to a more inclusive school where the staff actually have a clue about childhood development and your oldest 2 will likely thrive just as much or put your daughter in a different school. Please don't give your daughter even the slightest impression that she 'failed' or isn't as capable as her brothers though based on a snapshot test that some random stranger performed when she was 3 FFS

I agree with a PP... find a good Girls school for her. Then as far as your children know, she's going to the best school for her, and they go to the best school for them.

I find the existence of the 4+ (and 3+) mad, however if the school is selective there does need to be an assessment. Otherwise they will be checking out children at 7 if they can't keep up.

This 100%

This may be hard to hear, but I'm not sure this assessment is entirely based around your youngest, but also about your older two.
They have got to know your family, would recognise a summer born etc etc

They have chosen not to. Your family isn't what they want in their school.

Just out of interest how you would feel if the school waived their selection criteria for others who failed their 4+? Would you care or think it was fine?

Also I am astonished to find that the OP might be paying fees to this school. I thought it was selective because it was reserved for the most ‘confident and compliant’. Not being good enough at 3 for them to even take your money (x3!) really is another world to me.

Eh?! Her older children will have got in to the school at the expense of other children that applied and didn’t make the grade, some of whom no doubt had older siblings already in the school. That was perfectly acceptable for the OP when the selectiveness went in her family’s favour. So now it has gone against them, you think she should suddenly be against the idea of that selection process? And claim that it is unkind when it affects her family but was perfectly fine when it affected OTHER families?

I would love to know what school this is - siblings are usually given a fair amount of ‘benefit of the doubt’ as it’s guaranteed money (and that is ultimately what the school wants/needs, especially at the moment) and wait lists are not like they used to be post VAT/NI changes. I don’t think any private prep schools can be complacent now (even if they want to maintain the appearance of being oversubscribed).

I’m sure a chat with the head would help your DC get a place before too long. My main question would be whether you’re potentially putting what your daughter needs over what you want. Personally, I would never send my kid to a hot house school unless they were clearly suited to that world. I’ve seen the impact it has on tiny kid’s mental health from working in a few of these places and, as good as pastoral care is, schools like that (with 4+ entry) prioritise getting enough kids into the big hitters in London rather than helping all kids fulfil their potential even if their strengths lie outside of academics. Of course, one 4+ assessment doesn’t your define your daughter’s potential but I think it’s a really good time to reflect on what school would be best for her as an individual and not as a sibling.

OP when you choose this route you know that they don’t guarantee a place to siblings and if you already have kids in the school you know that it’s perfectly normal for siblings to be scattered across other schools

sending her elsewhere will not affect her self esteem or any of that crap, she’s 3. Find her another school and tell her how lovely it is. Job done. The only downside is you working out the logistics of 2 schools and surely you didn’t just apply to this one did you?

Nothing in a 4+ assessment would possibly predict whether or not a particular child will or won't be able to keep up at age 7 or 9. Every reception class in the country has a range of abilities and tye kids develop at different rates so that performance im that first year bears no relation to performance a few years later. The most it can really do is screen out the more obvious early indicators of things like dyslexia or ADHD. Beyond that, the results of the assessment are mostly junk and there will be no statistical differences in the range and spread of eventual academic performance between those who the test selects and (excluding those with SEN) those it rejects. A lot of those selected will be children of generally low potential whose parents paid through the nose for preparation tutorials for their 3yo until they could pass the test, who will then struggle to meet high expectations.

I think @MudLark87 may be right though.

You think only people who like the system have any knowledge of the system or any advice to give? Right.

Wow. Wtf. Fancy testing babies at 4 years old. Hopefully now she’ll get into a normal school and have a great time.