Private schools - Are you all rich

[Whatsitreallylike]

Divisive I know, and not a popular MN thing to say (name changed), but I want to send my DD to a local private school.

Its 4-11 only, and is known to be a feeder school to the local grammar (nothing guaranteed of course) so I’d like to give it a shot. I know a lot of 11+ tutoring is also required etc.. and if unsuccessful DD will likely be going to local comp secondary if not grammar as nothing else really around (no private secondaries for some distance).

Heres the question, will my DD be bullied for not being ‘rich’.
We have a combined income of £170k pa and not huge outgoings so we’re comfortable, but we’re not rich. We live in a 3 bed semi, have a few investment properties but on the face of it we’re very average. We can afford the extra curricular, school trips, clothes etc… but wondered what average looks like at these schools and will she be faced with comments like ‘you have a small house’, ‘your mums car is 5 years old’ etc… I don’t want her to be an outsider and would rather her at the local state school if she’d be more comfortable there.

With it being a grammar ‘feeder’ I imagine many parents may be in a similar boat to us, comfortable but not flash, investing early in education and hoping for the best. If your kids go to a 4-11 independent school, could you please tell me if I’m right or wrong to be worried please?

£170k household income may be well above the national average but it also isn't rich by a long stretch, MN seems to have a skewed view of these things

That being said, at DS's school you'd be a very average family based on what you describe. Whilst there are a small handful of very wealthy families, as well as those on lower incomes who've potentially benefited from bursaries and scholarship places the school offers, the vast majority are somewhere in between.

Not at all, having taught in private schools many parents (assuming this is rural, not central London) will be from farming backgrounds, lots of beaten up defenders and rusty Volvos at pick up.

In fact, by far the wealthiest family I taught, the dad drove a 35 year old Lada and they all wore Jeans and T shirts and he used an old flip phone, even to speech day, when they arrived in a private helicopter!!

By no means does being wealthy = splashing cash around, some do, a lot do not.

Earth 😂

I have had three at private schools and I do not recognise this trope.

People's definition of "rich" will obviously massively vary. On income alone you will certainly not be considered even "well off" by most families with children at private school. Many of these families will have far more significant generational wealth behind them even if they themselves don't earn any more than you.

To a working couple both on £35k, £180k joint income sounds incredibly high. However, people tend to live within their means, so your mortgage or rent goes up (often more necessary than it sounds in order to live in an area of the country supporting jobs that pay that well) & bills and council tax etc increase in parallel.

Once you factor in paying 40% tax on everything above 50k (or 60% effective rate above 100k), no universal credit or childcare support etc, disposable income for a couple on £80k and £70k is not going to be as high as it sounds. Sending your children to private school is likely to result in considerable sacrifice elsewhere, which is not the case for a sizeable percentage of parents who send their kids private. Worth bearing in mind.

If you have a spare £3000 a term then you are rich.

We are on about £240k combined and both ours go to private school. We know we are highly privileged in the general scheme of things and are fairly grateful and humble about it. We are among the less well off there - it manifests mostly as both DH and I being harassed and run down from our 2 full time jobs and other mums wafting in beautifully groomed from their tennis lessons. Money equals time, we dont quite have enough money to do it all in a relaxed way. So we have much less time for school stuff and for general quality of life.

Our children don't get teased for not being rich. The worst thing we have found is it's almost impossible to extricate yourself from the system - once you're in it.

We also thought that we would only do prep schools to give them a better time in the classroom (after a bad pandemic during which they learned nothing at their state primary, understandably enough, wasn't the school’s fault). We planned to go back to state for secondary.

DD now age 10 is SOOO used to the rather more luxe lifestyle that her friends have, and what normal looks like for her at school (loads of extra curricular stuff, fancy lunches etc) - that taking her round state secondaries has gone down like a bucket of cold sick.

I am wrestling with my own horror - I perceive her to be so spoilt and awful ("Mummy! They don't even have a cheerleading team or a dance studio!!"). For her though, she's genuinely trying to work out how the more everyday places, with basic head teacher speeches about value add and academic attainment, are supposed to show her it's as good a school as the ones where three girls talk about their amazing international travel and fun clubs, she watches a performance of musical theatre, there's a lovely rose garden, etc etc.

She is ten - she can't weigh up that she would achieve just as much in another school and only says she would be unhappy while learning.

I would like her to be happy enough at one of the two (sodding Ofsted outstanding!!! Perfectly great!!) schools near us. Bur obviously state schools are never mentioned at her prep school in any light, positive or otherwise, and she thinks it will mean she has failed to get into all the competitive entrance schools her friends are going for.

She'd get over it but we don't think we will be able to give her the crushing blow that she will feel it to be to go back into the state sector. I've been absolutely upfront with her about it - it isn't about the money it's about seeing a more realistic picture of life and frankly saving resources for other more important things like homes and university.

But she is doing an hour's homework every night and cramming for the exams and if it was "all for nothing" in her head it would feel significant. We can't get out now, without her feeling really bad and at odds with everything she now knows. And the impact would be greater than any benefit long term.

So - I'd probably go for living somewhere where the state schools are really good, maybe even going for the 11+ grammars, and not even getting into this racket in the first place.

Oh and the other thing is that many parents are awful. Just awful. Rigid gender roles, toxic masculinity excused among the fathers wanking on about their Tezlas, the little boys behaving badly and over confidently and bumptiously and everyone thinking it's fine.

On the plus side the actual education, for girls, is wonderful, and the exposure to different activities is marvellous.

The jokers are all out tonight eh🤡🤡🤡

Er our combined income is less than yours. I have one child at private school. No he is not bullied because we're not rich.

@Whatsitreallylike how dare you not admit you wipe your arse with £5 notes!

How rich you feel is relative to your outgoings. My household income is just shy of £200k and we only have the 1 DC, but we couldn’t afford a holiday abroad this year (we managed two days in Norfolk). A mahoosive mortgage in one of the most expensive parts of the country plus private school fees mean we very much live on a budget. That said, I would say 75% of the kids at DD’s independent school are in a similar position and only 25% in her class are very obviously wealthy. The school has its fair shares of Ferraris and Porsches at pick up but it’s a highly academic/selective private school and the focus is on education rather than wealth. That said, DD did come home today asking when she can start horse riding lessons.

I do think the fact that a £170k/£200k household income doesn’t have a person eating caviar every night speaks to a broken tax system in this country. In any other country we would actually be rich.

No private school parent is rich OP. The‘ll tell you they just ‘make sacrifices’. Quite what those on an average income are supposed to be able to ‘sacrifice’ to afford the fees is another matter. Heating? Food? The mortgage?

How terribly sad that you're having to worry about whether your primary school aged child will be bullied because of your income.
How will the children know?
My dad told us he earned £100 a minute typing and that he was driving Elvis' old car.
We told our mates, they were like "Wow....amazing".
Anything over £2 was riches!

nb my dad was an accountant, but we didn't really know what that was, and heaven knows where he got that car from but it was pretty cool!

If you think you're setting your kids up to be bullied when you earn 170K I think you need to look around you and see how most people live.

You can afford an overseas holiday but you have prioritised private school and a massive mortgage.

You can't say someone earning 5 million isn't rich just cos they've spent it on houses, yachts and cars.

I have an income sub £50k. My kids went to private school (not paid out of my income obviously but by my DH and then his life insurance after he passed away). You'll find kids at private school come from different backgrounds and not all are 'wealthy' in the way I can only assume you mean as you are yourself a high earning household. My kids friends parents were: nurses, builders, musicians, lawyers, teachers, business people etc. All sorts.
Some kids went to Caribbean for Christmas and Gstaad skiing for half term, others went to their grandma down the road. The kids don't really care. A few will, but most won't.

You're rich!

But he won't be bullied for it

My ds goes to the local independent on a scholarship. My salary is about a third of yours. I'm a single mum.

He still goes on all school trips and has all the kit. The school car park is full of family hatches, muddy land rovers and an occasional Audi. My 6yo car does not look out of place. I've never felt the need to discuss my salary with anyone at the school. It's none of their business. My ds doesn't know what I earn either. Why would he? He's not had a problem. I don't even think about it.

Your child should be fine.

Are we talking classical rhetoric, cliche or an overused fictional device?

Agreed. If both parents are working it's two fairly ordinary salaries. Yes it's a long way from struggling, but it's hardly staggering wealth either.

People on this thread have an odd definition about what is to be rich. OP has a combined income above average but that isn't being rich by any stretch. If OP or her OH (or both) lose their job and are unable to get a similar job straight away, would they have to remove their kids from private school? Would they have to sell their house, downsize, etc? Rich people wound't care about it because they have the money behind them. Losing a job isn't a problem. OP and her OH are working people with a salary above average.

And don’t forget the few investment properties!

If you’re paying fees for six children to go to school you’re delusional if you don’t realise that you are rich.
If you weren’t paying fees would you say you were rich?

Yes - they’d have to sell a house. That’s all.

"Rich" is subjective.
You define rich as having so much money you don't have to work.

Other people are looking at where OP sits relative to the rest of the country with a mind to thinking the top 1% of tax payers would be called rich.

According to the internet "To be in the top 1% of income tax payers in the UK (i.e. to be among the 310,000 individuals with the highest income), a taxable income of at least £160,000 is required. £236,000 is required to be in the top 0.5% and nearly £650,000 to be in the top 0.1%."

mosst of these people seem to be on MN

Either way because there is no exact definition you need to recognise people will have different (different, not odd) views.