Oh my God... I just argued with DS's teacher!

[Lycraphobe]

I only tried to have a chat with her about how difficult Ds finds the homework and how this has turned to impossible in the last week. I tried to teach it to him but it was too sophisticated a notion for him and he just couldn't get his head around it. (it was a couple of words in his spelling homework for which he had to write sentences showing that he understood the word).
Anyway the teacher kept saying "well, that's the programme I am following" and "he must do it", even when I explained that it isn't won't but can't, even with my help. The only option is for me to do it for him because she punishes him if it doesn't get done.

It all got a bit heated. She told me to go away and think about what she had said. I suggested that she thought about what I had said and that she spent time considering whether the work she is setting is achievable. At that point she took the huff and basically tried to close the door in my face!

Oh God! I wish I hadn't bothered even trying now! I hope she doesn't take it out on DS (as one of the teaching assistants confided in me: DS's teacher is inexperienced and she lacks empathy). Where do I go from here? He is in Yr3.

Think it is really controlling and odd of him to try and boss you around about what you can and cannot say, especially given that he wasn't even there in the first place. Why on earth would he assume that the teacher is in the right and his wife in the wrong? Seems all backwards and actually quite nasty.

Your dh is a wimp! So what he's basically saying is, the school has power so I'm never going to try to argue against them. And what if his ds needs him to argue. Let's hope he never ends up in the situation my dh did, where the school's lack of understanding risked permanently damaging a child's health. To recapitulate:

a) this meeting is most likely to be fairly non-confrontational- the head is (statistically speaking) most likely to be a fairly sensible person who wants to reach a conclusion that works for everybody

b) even if the head is not sensible, that does not alter the fact that your dh's first responsibility is towards his son
which means that he needs to go in with an open mind, find out what is going on, and argue his ds's case if he finds it needs arguing

I have unfortunately encountered one school where parents were trampled on. Didn't make a jot of difference to my dcs' needs- or to our responsiblity to try to get those met.

No, you MUST describe how the teacher behaved and about the educational things.

Otherwise - how will it look? If you don't describe the teachers behaviour, you will have to say that for no reason at all, you said some things and what? the teacher smiled at you and you had a go? Your husband is asking you to go there and say that you had a go at the teacher. because without putting it in context - that's how it will look. He is wrong to ask that of you.

How will your son be helped?

No, you must tell the head what happened.

Your husband is asking you to go there and look like a fool. An unreasonable fool. Does he think that is a fair thing to ask of his wife?

And to say that it must be your fault! He wasn't there, but oh you can't be telling the truth, you must have done something, it must be your fault, you're to blame... How horrible of him. He ought to believe what his wife says and support her. Not assume that she must be lying to him and at fault. What must he think of you? What a low opinion he must have of you. I feel really sorry for you.

Respectfully disagree with claig that the head "will probably tick you off", or that you should agree you were being unreasonable; I don't think there is anything to be gained by that, as you weren't being unreasonable.

And from what other teachers and heads on this thread have said, it doesn't sound remotely like a safe assumption that the head plans to tick you off in the first place.

Hope this isn't all making your head swirl. Take some time to think about it all before you act, you've had masses of posts and it will be hard to digest everything esp with tension between you and your DH.

You poor thing, recovering from surgery amidst all this!

You don't know that the head has you in to rebuke you. He or she may well be concerned about the teacher and just want to find out what happened.

Be polite and calm. But firm. Show him the spellings - try and keep it about getting the teacher to set appropriate work. You can say what the teacher said but there's no point concentrating on the teacher as the problem because even if the head has concerns they are unlikely to tell you. Yes describe her behaviour but don't expand on it.

You will have to read the situation when you are in there, and if it does turn out that the head ticks you off, then I think you have to compromise in order to make peace. I agree with DorotheaPlenticlew, don't admit that you were unreasonable, but I would compromise and say that it may have appeared to the teacher that way. Hopefully, the teacher, if present, will also be able to compromise and accept that she overreacted.

A good head generally knows when they have a weak teacher. If she is a good head, she won't bad-mouth her to you, but equally she will accept your version of events.

I would go in to discuss the spellings issue - check whether it is school policy, whether the head thinks these words are appropriate for your son, etc. Then check about the other things you are concerned about and mention the teachers manner when you asked her about it.

Do you think you might have come across as a bit aggressive and confrontational with the teacher, or are you sure you were polite and reasonable? Just wondering if your DH has reason to think you handled it badly?

Askto see a copy of the homework policy. It should say that homework is differentiated to suit the child and if it doesn't, ask them to review it. Homework should be achievable, as should school work. Yes, a challenge is fine, but setting a child up to fail or struggle unnecessarily is unfair.

As the Head has asked to meet with you it's likely that she has an idea of what she'd like to talk about and it may well be the interaction between you and the teacher. However, if you describe the incident in writing beforehand you may be saved the worry of having to re-tell it; I often get children to write accounts of what happened/went wrong and I will do the same and we look at them together. You could write yours out in advance, keeping it factual and dispassionate e.g. "I said these words are too hard for my son and she replied that's how I do things, he'll have to learn them....". Your DH could read it through beforehand and it could then be something you have up your sleeve/in your pocket and hand over if the situation demands it.

You may find that the Head wants to know more about what's happening because support has already been put in place for this teacher and she wants to help you understand that the teacher is being monitored etc. It's a possibility especially if the teacher has been moved from Y6 to Y3 under a cloud.

Definitely stick to your first concern which is the issue of spellings and ask about the home learning policy and save the other things for if/when the opportunity arises... if you get in there first and ask the Head to explain why she's called the meeting you may find there's nothing to worry about and she wants to tell you that your son has been headhunted for carrying the torch at the 2012 Olympics but she wanted to check whether or not you and DH would be happy for him to be put forward for the national selection! Who knows?!?

Just want to say good luck with today's meeting, hope it goes well and your dh backs you up as he should.

Hope it has all gone well today.

Dh should realise that a lot of experienced teachers have given their advice on this thread and share your concerns in this instance.

Hope today has gone ok and some of the issues and concerns you have, have been resolved.

Update... we had the meeting this morning with the head. DH and I were both there having finally agreed(!) on what we wanted to say.
I spent yesterday afternoon writing two documents that I gave to the head this morning. The first was an account of the meeting with the teacher last week, and the second was a letter expressing our concerns about the literacy homework in particular and also about how DS is considerably less enthused about learning than he was six months ago.

The account was just a report of what happened and it didn't comment on how I felt about the teacher's attitude or really infer anything about her at all. I left the head to deduce what she could from the description of what the teacher said and what I had said.

When the head saw us today, she said that she had asked for the meeting because the teacher had spoken with her on Friday and the head felt there may be an unresolved issue, but first she was keen to hear my side of the story about what happened last week. So i gave her the report and said it was all in there. Then i gave her the other letter and explained that there is a problem but the letter explains it more clearly than I can verbally.

Th head said that she knows Ds and has reviewed his work and she thinks he is an asset to the school.
DH described how DS has been struggling with the homework and how we had basically started to do some of it for him. We described the punishment for not handing in homework in time and the head seemed a bit shocked. She didn't comment, but she did say that she was concerned to hear that children are left unsupervised in the classroom at lunchtime and that she couldn't understand why Ds just didn't hand in his homework when he was told that he was to be punished for not having done it. I told her that he did try to but it was refused and she didn't say anything. I asked her if what i had described was school policy and she said it isn't.
Now the head wants us to have a meeting with her and the teacher in the next few days. I've been through hell these last couple of days and personally i just don't want to see her so i hesitated. But DH was sitting beside me, giving me a sort of "go on" look, so I agreed. I'm really not looking forward to it though and i'm sure the head knows this from the look on my face, even if I didn't actually say so. Dh says I was looking close to tears at this time, so it was blatantly obvious that I did not want to do it. the only thing that i actually said against the teacher was that she was inflexible when I spoke to her last week (which is a major understatement IMO, but DH thought that i shouldn't have said even that).

Th head also wants to attend the upcoming parents evening. Maybe she is going to keep a closer eye on what is happening in her Y3 classroom from now on, especially where DS is concerned. I don't know that though.. it is just a feeling I got.

Meantime, the head still has to compare my version of what happened last week with the teacher's and decide for herself where the truth lies and then what she can/ will do about it.

One thing that did come up though was that those spelling words are laid down by the govt for Y3s!

it sounds like it went very well. It will be good to see the teacher, it will clear the air, and with the time that has passed, I am sure the heat will have been taken out of the situation. So the teacher was right about seeing the government about the spelling words, amazing!!!

Good for you! Stay strong. The HT will know all about that teacher, even if she can't admit it to you.

I am glad it went well. At least you have highlighted a few things that I am sure the head will look into. Don't be worried about your next meeting. With the head there it will be all positive and she will want to get the best for your DS. I am also pleased your DH went along and showed a united front!

at the words, but are they "goal" words. No way could anyone expect ALL year 3 children to know those words.

I'm not sure those exact words are "laid down" by the government - they have to learn how to do suffixes in Y3, but not necessarily with those words. I would have thought the teacher could have chosen some simpler examples of the suffix -able. The Head may have not made this clear in your discussion. Or maybe she didn't know and was bluffing?

And if they do insist on using those words, the children should be taught the meaning so that they can use them in a sentence.

Did his teacher teach much older children previously? It seems like she is using examples that would be appropriate for a Y6 class.

But the meeting with the Head sounds like it went well and it sounds like she wants to keep an eye on the situation, which is good.

Hi, have read all the thread, but just wanted to say that you might think about bringing someone else to the meeting with the head and the teacher. I am saying this as a friend of mine had a meeting with, she thought, just the head, but it turned out to be the head and the teacher and she felt a bit railroaded into agreeing to things.

I don't know the parents of either of the other two children who are in Ds's spelling group, but I do know that one or two of the mother's of children in the other groups have been having problems too with their words. One of them told me last week that she'd just spoken to the teacher about it and been rebuffed in a similar way to the one that I was. the only difference was that she gave up and walked away whereas I was more determined that we would resolve the issue. I don't think though that I can drag other people into this though, unless they want to volunteer themselves (and I think of myself as a team player but I'd hesitate if I were in their shoes).

DS won a record number of gold stars for his work today. He says it is more than anyone else ever got in the class in a single day...

Also the spellings for this week are suddenly a lot more straightforward... farmer, reader etc

'spelling words laid down by the government'...What about differentiation?

cornsilk - do you mean children of differing abilities? Its a good question! I asked today if all spelling groups in the class had to do this set of words this year and the head said they don't. So it does imply that they are not as mandatory as the head and the teacher say they are.

Actually this is one part that is still not making sense to me.

Hi Op, so pleased that the meeting went that well. Reading between the lines, I would say the head has taken on board much of what you said and will hopefully be keeping a much closer watch on this teacher in the futre.
I appreciate you do not want to have a second meeting with the head and class teacher, but this could be the best way to agree a way forward to ensure your ds gets the best he can from this situation.
Best wishes x

The examples given in the Spelling guide for this term in yr 3 with the -able suffix are avoidable, drinkable,enjoyable, bearable,likeable, breakable and sinkable. This must be the guide the teacher is working from as the next set are the -er endings ( which includes farmer and reader!) So where the heck she got the original ones from I do not know!

Hi Lycraphobe
I Just asked my ds about those three words. He had a go at using them in sentances but didnt succeed.
He loves words, 'fancy' words in particular and is bright for his age but wouldnt want to learn to spell those words - the teacher sounds awful, you have my sympathies