to feel a bit gutted that DS primary school is 80% full of chav roughneck parents....

[Boobalina]

I know I am going to get shot down here but hear me out. DS is in reception at our local school walking distance from our house. Various friends of ours (who all live in nicer parts of the city) children all go to their local schools which are ofsted 'outstanding' and full of middle class parents and kids. Now this is what you get when you cant afford to live in a nicer part of the city I know... but every now and then it really guts me. DS went to a very nice nursery and pre-school close to my work which was a bit posh and DD still goes there. But we couldnt afford to send DS there for primary school. His teachers seem really lovely, and really professional - its just some of the kids and parents there.

I went to a nice village primary school and then ended up going to a rather rough comp after and it did me know harm at all. I just wanted a bit more for my kids and also its hard to make friends with some of the mums when they are screaming at their toddlers, smoking lamberts and comparing lovebites (really!)

I am really jealous of my friends....

and they have bigger houses than us....

pathetic isnt it........

I'm still boggling at 'i can remeber when I ,who went to the same schools, went to University it was a real culture shock when I met people who had been to comprehensives'.

That would be me, then, the one with the scholarship in our group reading English at Oxford.

yabu. and my child goes to a school locally regarded as rough. and the vast majority of parents are perfectly civilised and caring despite not all being middle class and some might even be shock horror "social housing elements".

Being on a part-time contract I suppose I am one of the few academics in my department whose children cannot go to school in the nice leafy academic suburb (also means we live in blissful peace, far away from inebriated students ). Our catchment is rather rougher. I can't say this worries me at all; the main thing is that the schools are well run and well disciplined. My children will learn from a start that different people have different ambitions in life- hopefully they will also learn not to judge a book from its covers.

Completely agree, lemonmuffin. It is not snobbery to find some behaviour unacceptable. Otherwise, are notices on buses, in schools and doctors' surgeries saying 'our staff will not tolerate aggressive behaviour' - snobbish?

However, OP you are bound to get this kind of response when you link bad behaviour with comments about big houses and use words like 'chav'.

I'm hoping that the culture shock I provided for my peers at university was in a good way. . Nice to think I've played a part in broadening people's educational and cultural horizons. (or does she just mean we smelt funny and wore the wrong shoes?)

I have no idea if the people I was at uni came from a comp or not, you really couldn't tell by looking at them. It must have been the smell Fennel

Sometimes my privately educated friends have kindly told me that they couldn't tell, you know, that I wasn't from one too. I think that's meant to be a compliment.

I really hope we didn't shock them too much I feel just terrible about it.

If OP had posted that all parents were posh and she wasn't everyone would have said poor OP, she has said she's different and face value has different values than the majority of parents, that's all.

Blu, imo 'chav' does not refer to class.

Chav to me is defined by anti social behaviour such as public consumption of alcohol, abusive language in inappropiate settings, unemployment, sportswear and terrible dance music. Nothing to do with social class or wealth.

i dont think of chav as equating prosperous or chatterati

the middle class chaterrati bleating about how hard it is to get a good nanny/find a mandarin speaking nursery/waiting list for toddler advanced maths - well they are another tribe

ooh this still going

MoreCrack - disengenuous.
The wealthy mc teens who holiday in Rock could answer that description of behavour but are not described as 'chavs'.

So could members of the Bullingdon club.

No one would ever call David Cameron or Boris Johnson chavs.

But their behaviour fitted that bill.

Chav is a word which describes behaviour as well as class. It is the modern day equivalent of "the criminal classes". (As opposed to "the decent poor" or "the salt of the earth".)

YANBU Smoking in a playground and comparing love bites in a playground is vile behaviour

and im far from posh

Those teens aren't parents of young children at Primary school though are they?
I wouldn't be happy with them hanging around the school gates either.

Point taken about the connotations of 'chav', but I think the Op's concerns were regarding their behaviour, and not their social standing.

I certainly wouldn't fancy chatting to Cameron or Boris, particularly during their Bullingdon days, at pick up time either.

i'd love to meet either of those gentleman.chew the cud

I think we ought to understand that there is a difference between working class and chav. By the way, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so somebody may have made the same point.

My parents were a painter and decorator and a housewife (former nurse). They would never smoke, swear, or shout at us in the playground. They certainly never compared lovebites! All three of their children went to university.

The people the OP describes are chavs. That is a lifestyle choice, not an economic one.I would be unhappy about my child spending time with their children. That is not necessarily being snobbish.

My children's school was fairly mixed, but there were parents who actually I found slightly scary, and I didn't want my children to get too friendly with their children, not because I didn't like the children, but because I really really didn't want dd to be invited to their houses (ds not into that scene) and then to have to find a way to say no that wasn't taken to be offensive. This was from sitting on the bus with them in the morning, when they routinely pushed and swore at the children (and anyone else who might in any way annoy them - bus drivers, old ladies etc etc), and told their mates about all their dodgy behaviour in very loud voices, making everyone else's journey really quite unpleasant. They weren't actually abusing their kids in a "call SS" sort of way, but it was very uncomfortable. I don't think it is unreasonable to judge that behaviour as something that you really don't find acceptable. However the school seemed to manage everything pretty well, and the children were happy and made friends with a fairly diverse bunch of really nice children, with friendly parents. I think part of the problem is that it may be the "bad" parents are fairly few, but just rather dominant, so it feels as if there is a bigger problem than there is in truth.

Rebecca I think it is being snobbish. It is tarring the children with the parents' brush.
I know that up to a point, it's inevitable that most children will follow in the footsteps of their parents and adopt their values, attitudes, expectations etc., but it's unfair to assume that every 8 year old is as ghastly as their parents.

My DS's best friend is a 10 year old whose mother and stepfather fit the stereotype of some of the parents desribed here - smoking, sweary, aggressive - who chuck their DS out of the house at 9AM at weekends and holidays and tell him not to come back until 5PM. No food, no drink, no company, no nurture. Poor kid wanders around the streets bumping into other kids and knocks hopefully on doors of friends where he gets fed. Bloody awful parenting IMO. He is the most well-mannered, polite, considerate, nice child you could hope to meet. I'm very happy for my DS to be friends with him, I don't care what his parents are like. (Mind you, I suppose DS won't be going to their house, seeing as how even his friend isn't allowed in and he lives there. )

just go back to work - you then don't get to do the school drop off or pick up and have no idea what goes on at school = no anxiety about your decision. You also don't have time to worry about it.

I'd recommend it. Might give you a sense of perspective too. Most important factor in primary school (I believe) is parental involvement anyway (so reading with your children in the evening etc.).

I read somewhere that one of the biggest causes of misery (in current day UK) is believing you are worse off than your friends so I'd try and look at ways to stop yourself feeling that way before another year has gone by and you've spent most of it not enjoying what you have. Life goes too quickly and changes too fast to spend it worrying about not keeping up with the Joneses imo.

Interesting that letting your children roam free all day is now 'chav' behaviour. I'm sure that a lot of old people get misty eyed at the thought of childhoods unfettered by adults all day, whilst mum cleans the house/shines the step etc.

and just one final point, one of the saddest things you can do as an adult is judge a child because of its parents.

Unfortunately, children can't choose who they are born to (whether they be snobs or alcoholics or whoever) . Just because the parents are that way, doesn't mean the children will follow and you may find your ds is best mates with one of those lovebite-smoking-tattooed mum's children .

That's why state school in this country is so fabulous - everyone gets a chance, no matter what background they've had. And you said yourself, the teachers are wonderful. I bet they will be keen to give all those children a chance too.

As for making friends yourself, well hopefully, you'll stick with being happy with the 20% lol. I don't know why people see school as a social opportunity but judging by most people on mumsnet, I'd say the fact that you'd found friends with 20% of them is a pretty good percentage!

ah I see bewitched has made the point

I also don't think there's anything wrong with wanting the best for your kids but maybe you need to redefine what the important factors are.