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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Anyone in Scotland got a DC starting Primary One next Monday, come and hold hands with me

251 replies

sweetkitty · 11/08/2009 23:06

My PPPPFB DD1 is starting "big" school on Monday

Anyone else?

Am I going to be a blubbing wreck?

OP posts:
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prettybird · 18/08/2009 12:16

Glad to hear about your dd. Hope the other mum does manage to get it sorted. If she is prepared to take it all the way, schools/ the Local Education Department are on very dodgy legal ground refusing places to children on the basis of class size if that class size is below 30 (25 for composte classes) which is what the law still says (Scottish Executive targets iof 18 per class notwithstanding). That came from Glasgow's Director of Education herself! (at a presentation she gave to the Glasgow Forum for Parent Councils)

brokenspacebar · 18/08/2009 13:17

I thought P1-3 had to have 25 or under? 4-7 allowed up to 33? I read it recently, somewhere.

Chrysanthemum5 · 18/08/2009 13:26

"I thought P1-3 had to have 25 or under? 4-7 allowed up to 33? I read it recently, somewhere. "

Nope, that is the Government policy, but it isn't capable of withstanding a legal challenge so DS's school has P1 classes of 30.

aGalChangedHerName · 18/08/2009 13:31

Yes Betty i couldn't believe it when i heard about the number of P1's

I don't understand where the pupils are going to be accommodated as they progress up the school either. There are only 2 classrooms for each class in the upper school at the moment isn't there?

seb1 · 18/08/2009 13:33

Telly must have been dire in 2003/2004 resulting in all these huge P1 intakes this year. DD2 started today and there are 100 in P1 this year.

bargainhuntingbetty · 18/08/2009 13:42

I know that they are taking away the play and learn room to use that as a P1 classroom which is a shame. I think there are only 2 classes per year further up the school but they obviously feel that there are sufficient classes. Unless the classes are going to increase in size as they move further up the school. Its bad isnt it.

aGalChangedHerName · 18/08/2009 14:19

How many pupils are in the upper school per class now? ow much bigger can they make tham FGS??

IneedacleanerIamalazyslattern · 18/08/2009 14:26

DD wasn't happy going in this morning never had this problem when she started P1 last year.
THey have moved the classes and her to wee chums are in a different class now which didn't help.
I know she'll be fine by now but I was so sad watching her go in.

brokenspacebar · 18/08/2009 14:47

Government policy is for 18 I think, teaching unions want it to be set at 20...our ht said if their were 26 children starting in P1 they would not split the class, but if there were more they would qualify for an extra teacher, I wonder if it is down to local authority, it would be good to see what the legislation says...my dd was in a class of 26 in P1 and I thought that was too big, I am glad ds is in a smaller class.

sweetkitty · 18/08/2009 16:09

DD1's class has 21 in it, only one P1 it's a small school, last year they had 26 and had 2 teachers.

I know some schools round here have 3 P1 classes, there's the big Catholic primary DD1 nearly went to but they are moving schools next year into a school which hasn't the capacity for the children supposed to go to it so they are rezoning the catchment area so more will go to DD1's school, DD1's school was built in the 70s so although it's not nice from outside it's big and has more room than they need. Has a lovely big infants library and a huge open plan play area as well as individual classrooms, one school close has learning zones built around the gym, not to keen on that really.

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prettybird · 18/08/2009 16:29

Government policy (or target) is 18 - but the legislation still states 30 - hence why appeals, if someone chooses to take it that far - can be won.

There is an argument between the councils and the government as to whether or not the "concordat" provides sufficient funds for the councils to achieve 18 per calss. There is the added complication that the funding for education is not ring fenced.

Added to that the fact that many schools physically don't have enough class rooms for 18 per class. As is obviously the case in Livingston.

At our own school, we lost the "noisy quiet" room 2 years ago and we lost the library this year. There is now not a single "spare" room in the single. The communal area between the class rooms is now mulit-purpose: computer room, strucutred play and library. The dining hall is also the gym and assmebly room. The head has a tiny office, the amin ladies an even smaller room. The depute head doesn't have an office - although she does use the (tiny) first aid room on occasion for "private" meetings.

As a result, although the school has been taking in 2 P1 classes for the last few years, next year it physically won't be able to. Which means that although the school has alwyas been able to accommodate placing requests (usually about half of the intake), as of next year, it won't be able to do so - unless a temporary classroom is put in. Unfortunately, the Education dept is not prepared to pay for that - but the "other" primary school (whose catchment is where we get most of the placing requests) is also now busting at the seams. So what is going to happen next year? The geogrpahy of where we live means that other primary schools - even though we are inner city Glasgow - are a long way away and across extremely busy roads.

The irony is that there is, within half a mile, a catholic primary school which is less than half full - and what's more, of its attendance, has only two catholics.

bargainhuntingbetty · 18/08/2009 21:20

Think the government need to look into our school then, I would like to know what hmi make of class sizes this time??

bargainhuntingbetty · 18/08/2009 21:20

Think the government need to look into our school then, I would like to know what hmi make of class sizes this time??

Aimsmum · 18/08/2009 21:28

Message withdrawn

Chrysanthemum5 · 19/08/2009 09:22

Well I wrote to the Education Minister to ask about how the class sizes can be 30, when the Government hands out leaflets boasting about their policy of class sizes of 18. I don't blame the school at all, but being given a leaflet telling me it is better for my child to be in a small class when that is not happening really got on my nerves! Anyway, their answer was to blame the council for accepting placing requests. Although the Government are the ones promoting the right to placing requests so I felt their answer was hypocritical.

Linnet · 19/08/2009 11:26

My dd's primary school has to have 25 or less in a p1 class and they are very strict on that. Last year they only had one p1 class which was limited to 25, there was a bit of an uproar because it's a catholic school and of Catholic children got first priority over other children applying and quite rightly so. there were many more apllied but only 25 got in and I think all but two or three were catholic.
This year the council have allowed the school to have 2 P1 classes both with less than 25 children in each class.

prettybird · 19/08/2009 11:46

There is a degree of posturing between the councils (particularly Glasgow) and the government over the issue of class sizes.

However, to be (reluctantly) fair on the council, you can't just magic up classrooms over night.

As I mentioned, our primary schol is jampacked, the school to which the placing requests should have gone is also jampacked, and by a strange quirk of geography, there really aren't any other primary schools within walking distance. So what are they to do?

For the moment it has been resolved with extra teaching assistants (althuogh it really should be extra teachers)

And yet there are schools like Aimsmum's dd - not that far from me - where the kids are rattling around in an empty school.

Anyway, this debate is a but deep for what should be a support thread for littlies starting school this week!

Ceolas · 20/08/2009 07:37

Ours are back today. Poor mites are knackered after their new baby sister keeping them awake last night. Hope the adrenaline will carry them through!

(Baby Ruth Frances finally put in an appearance yesterday morning at 5:31. Weighs 8lbs 10oz. We're all knackered but glad she's here )

Aimsmum · 20/08/2009 09:17

Message withdrawn

prettybird · 20/08/2009 12:04

Congratulations Ceolas - and hope your wee 'uns enjoyed their first day back at school.

sweetkitty · 20/08/2009 16:46

Congratulations Ceolas, so you went for Ruth then am sure they will be fine too

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bluejeans · 20/08/2009 18:58

Congratulations! New baby and kids back to school within 24hrs sounds stressful but probably good timing as you will get time alone with the wee one

Chrysanthemum5 · 25/08/2009 09:16

Congratulations Ceolas, hope the excitement of being back at school and having a new sister gets rid of your DCs tiredness!

Well, DC1 is now at school - he's very excited although today he did ask me why he has to go to school because he thinks he can already do everything!

aGalChangedHerName · 03/09/2009 12:47

How are all the lo's (and the mums) getting on at school?

DD1 is enjoying it all so far!!

Lindax · 03/09/2009 18:09

ds started full time this week and is enjoying school & playtime, but struggling a bit with lunchtime and afterschool club which he started on Wednesday.

cant make up his mind if he wants school lunch or packed lunch. think most of the other kids are the same and keep changing, he wants school lunch one day cos someone else had them the day before, then they go and bring in a packed lunch that day! he's not wanted to go in a couple of days, but its the school lunch that seems to be the root of the problem for him.

he also looks shattered at the end of every day this week and we've brought forward his bed time/story to 7:15pm - lights out at 7:45pm