Starting reception, not reliably toilet trained

[arghhso]

Pains me to say it but we’re nearly two years down the line and unfortunately just not there yet.

I have tried the usual resources (ERIC etc) but that aside my worry is DS soiling himself at school. I’m mostly wondering what the procedure is then? Will I or DH be expected to come in to clean him up?

Our child uses the toilet card system. They don’t like talking about personal things and certainly bodily functions.

has been very helpful as no words are needed!

Thanks @Tulipvase

It’s odd as he was OK for ages - the odd accident but definitely only occasional. I know a lot of people are suggesting constipation but I honestly don’t see how he could be and his poos are soft without being loose (sorry!)

Have you check food allergies, dairy intolerance can cause this? Meet a DC that can’t have milk so no chocolate or products with milk. If it is loose stool with no warning.

I'd have to wonder if he's actually feeling the urge to go? Does he know its going to happen or does it take him by surprise?

Pull ups will save him some embarrassment and I'd teach him how to clean and change himself so it's minimally disruptive.

Speak to teacher and ask her to prompt him regularly to go, I'd say once every hour. If he doesn't need to, have him try anyway.

I think he does know as sometimes he tries to go but has left it too late. It’s a bit of a mystery and is frustrating, but hopefully it will be resolved by September. I think he’d be very humiliated to be put in nappies / pull ups.

This is super important.

if a child of 4 is starting school and regularly soiling themselves then there is / should be an assumption of some additional need, even if it is undiagnosed.

School should not require parents to come in to change children (says a mother of a child with bladder / stomach challenges and no diagnosis despite regular contact with the health services).

OP don’t let MN scare you.

Request HV referral to incontinence team.
Self refer if you can.
Ask GP to refer too.
speak to SENco this week. Say what you have said on here.

speak to school nurse see if they can support a referral to incontinence team.

and keep doing what you are doing

There’s a form of chronic constipation that basically leaves the bowel full of poo and stretched.

The feeling full feeling then becomes permanent and your body doesn’t really get the prompts that some is going to come out.

ERIC has info on the sweetcorn transit test, which may be worth trying. It’s quite informative on that front.

Contact the teacher before the transition day. You can briefly describe the history (was fine for a long time, last year or so hasn’t been, not many days without issues, working on it, limited support from GP at the moment, aware it’s not where would want him to be for starting school, will reinforce importance of going promptly before he comes into school, will send spare clothes and wipes and a plastic bag in a bag for him, any issues happy to be called, hopeful that the change of surroundings might be a prompt. If they have any useful community contacts you’d appreciate them as GP not engaging, and you’re using ERIC info).

That way you show you’re not masking it or assuming it’s ok, you’re trying to be helpful, and you’re not dropping it on them as a surprise if happens on the day.

More so that the other children seeing he’s had an accident?

Yes. He seems rather unbothered by that and it doesn’t seem infrequent in preschool. But lately it’s happening a lot. Besides, pull ups would be a huge step backwards; he wouldn’t even try to get to the toilet then, I don’t think.

My little one was like this, and it got worse when he started school as he didn’t want to poo at school.

what changed it for us was getting him so sit on the toilet this was non negotiable, half hour after breakfast and half hour after dinner and before bed, reward with stickers for sitting on the toilet, then once reliably going at the those time stickers for going for a poo on the loo, once chart filled up he could chose a toy or a day out. We do still now have a period whereby he hold it in and soil himself. We’re currently going through it again, so he had a marble jar he’s filling up now. This time is been quick getting him to a new routine of pooing in the morning before school.

ignore any accidents, and focus on the positives, lots of chats about why we poo on the toilet. You could get him into a really good place for school, and continue with rewards even when reliably going on the loo. Also don’t relax it at the weekend, still the regime of sitting on the loo.

Sounds like a bit of the issue is him not really being bothered or embarrassed by the accidents. I do think a little bit of embarrassment is necessary to motivate them and maybe just the idea of starting big school will help him.

but I would be really concerned about bullying and teasing from other children, I’ve known it to happen in reception to the children having accidents and the name calling can follow them through school

My son started fully potty trained, but then started having wee accidents every day a couple of months in (no SEN but is young for year). Because he was usually too busy to go to the loo and teacher didn't seem to 'make' them go. School said if continues he'd gave to go onto an intimate care plan!

Anyway...the way we resolved issue was through bribery (combined with teacher more actively ensuring he tried to go for wees more often) with a new lego person or hotwheels car each day he didn't have an accident. After 2 weeks with no accidents he could choose something bigger. It worked! Bribary might be worth a try?

Have you and his nursery tried taking him on a set schedule? My dd couldn’t sense she needed to go and still can’t (grown) so even today wears a smartwatch with 3 hourly alarms! It’s apparently not that rare in small children but rarer in teens and adults. I got her trained eventually by scheduling

And yes to bribery, whatever their weakness is

I would try and contact the school nursing service - they maybe more helpful than your GP.

The thing is, if he’s been used to being in a setting where staff are changing nappies, he won’t see anything different to them changing him in underpants.
I would get him into a strict regime of sitting on the toilet at particular times every day, eg straight after breakfast and lunch, and he does a poo. If he doesn’t, take him back every 30 minutes. In addition, get a step for him to put his feet on as this changes the position of his colon making it easier to poo. His knees need to be higher than his hips. Full size toilets don’t allow for this with children,

What have you actually done to train them? What technique did you use? You really need to sort this out before your DC starts school!

I think the fact he’s been ‘trained’ for nearly two years indicates I’ve tried quite hard to ‘sort it out.’ It did take him a while; he got the wees quite quickly but not poo.

Anyway thanks for the advice. Will keep persevering!

Maybe you could actually read the thread.

I'm not being mean, but not really as they usually get it in a couple of weeks. That's why I'm asking if you used a specific technique or did you just randomly ask them to sit on a potty. In saying that poos can be harder, so I'd try a reward system with really good rewards. They are also old enough to communicate with you, so what are they telling you? Also as PP has said, has a medical issue been ruled out. I guess I'm saying you need a specific technique/approach that is consistent, not just something random

There's nothing specific, it's vague hence the question

They sometimes do. Like all things some children take longer to get it than others and some get it and then regress which is what we’re struggling with. I’m not holding him back or home schooling him so one way or another we’ll have to deal with it.

That's why I'm suggesting you use a actual method to do this rather than something random which clearly hasn't been effective. Apologies if I've misunderstood anything. Not getting it yet would suggest something more is going on.

I could cry reading this. It's a relief to know it's not just us.

My DC is the same. Starting school in September and cannot poo reliably on the toilet. They go through stages of doing it and then for no reason what so ever, poo in their pants multiple times a day. It's embarrassing and infuriating. I feel like we've done everything "right" to no avail. We've tried sticker charts, treats, etc. HV involved. We're on the (30-week!!) incontinence waiting list. On laxatives for almost two years. GP not interested until Y2/age 7. No obvious SEN and nursery haven't raised any concerns. Generally, no problems with wee and dry overnight for a year.

Just hoping school is understanding 🙏

I’d be concerned about him having more accidents with poo than wee and would make me think there’s a medical issue rather than just him being lazy.

Generally children have more accidents the other way around. Pooing takes a lot more effort than weeing and the urge is easier to recognise.

can he say why? Does he know he needed to go but was just busy so decided to go in his pants or does it just happen without him realising?