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Original poster

Primary School punch - AIBU?

390 replies

MovingMad87 · 18/02/2025 22:53

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

OP posts:
Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 10:58

shockeditellyou · 19/02/2025 10:45

And this attitude is why schools are a shitshow. We had a reception kid regularly biting, punching, calling teaching staff a c*nt, destroying furniture and apparently we were supposed to suck that up?

A child with those issues has no business being in mainstream, and no mainstream school should have to deal with it. We sure as shit didn’t have any funding to deal with it. Once an EHCP came through, we couldn’t find any employee willing to deal with the child - and who wants to be a punching bag for minimum wage? Our school was small with no physical space for nurture rooms etc, and we had children leaving in numbers that were affecting the viability of the school because of this child. We eventually PEXEd and the LA made the HTs life a misery, and it cost the school over £10 000.

Your misguided compassion for one child comes at the cost of every other child and staff member in that school. It’s not acceptable.

Show quote history

Also if the perm ex cost the school money that means they didn’t follow process so it was absolutely deserved.

shockeditellyou · 19/02/2025 11:06

Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 10:58

Also if the perm ex cost the school money that means they didn’t follow process so it was absolutely deserved.

Show quote history

Nope - our governors refused to readmit after we were asked to reconsider by appeal. At that point we are “fined” by the LA. Given it only takes 3 children leaving before we have lost more per pupil funding than that fine, it made more sense to refuse to readmit. Two children from one class, plus their siblings leaving, because of violent children, and there you are. Schools are run on a financial knife edge, and families leaving is extremely problematic financially - you lose about £4.5k per year and any associated sibling income as well. If we’d readmitted that child, we would have lost more families and staff.

We’d already had to pay thousands for agency staff - firstly because we had no other way to keep children safe whilst we waited for EHCP funding, then to cover staff who went off sick because they weren’t prepared to deal with the child.

I don’t think people are suggesting PEX for a 6 year old after one incident. They are suggesting it because they have put up with years of bad behaviour, and because schools have no other option.

shockeditellyou · 19/02/2025 11:07

And I’ve never had an exclusion overturned because we didn’t follow procedure correctly.

Sunnyandshiney · 19/02/2025 11:07

MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 10:22

@Hoppinggreen that is incredibly sad. I think I'll have to move her to private earlier than I thought. 😭

Don't even think about it, just get her moved before anything else happens.

Had to do the same with my DS.

Honestly can't believe the attitude of some people trying to excuse the school.

Would you put up with being punched in the face in the workplace, of course not! it's ridiculous how violence and assault is normalised in schools. It bloody isn't normal and shouldn't be brushed under the carpet.

Bringmeahigherlove · 19/02/2025 11:09

Minuethippo · 18/02/2025 23:29

Yes absolutely. What hillbilly kinda school is this? Rotten

The same kind of “hillbilly” schools that are up and down the country. Chronic underfunding leading to all sorts of issues, including violence becoming normalised.

Edited to add that on top of that it is very difficult to remove a child from their school. This does come back to funding again though because there are very very few alternative education settings now. Schools with challenging behaviour, whether that be down to SEN or not, have their hands tied.

Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 11:09

shockeditellyou · 19/02/2025 11:06

Nope - our governors refused to readmit after we were asked to reconsider by appeal. At that point we are “fined” by the LA. Given it only takes 3 children leaving before we have lost more per pupil funding than that fine, it made more sense to refuse to readmit. Two children from one class, plus their siblings leaving, because of violent children, and there you are. Schools are run on a financial knife edge, and families leaving is extremely problematic financially - you lose about £4.5k per year and any associated sibling income as well. If we’d readmitted that child, we would have lost more families and staff.

We’d already had to pay thousands for agency staff - firstly because we had no other way to keep children safe whilst we waited for EHCP funding, then to cover staff who went off sick because they weren’t prepared to deal with the child.

I don’t think people are suggesting PEX for a 6 year old after one incident. They are suggesting it because they have put up with years of bad behaviour, and because schools have no other option.

Show quote history

So you didn’t follow process hence fined.

There aren’t years of bad behaviour involving a 6 year old. They’ve only been CSA for maximum 2 years. And there’s no way schools can have followed advice from behaviour outreach and implemented ehcp provisions in that timeframe.

Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 11:10

shockeditellyou · 19/02/2025 11:07

And I’ve never had an exclusion overturned because we didn’t follow procedure correctly.

Yet you were fined for not following process.

Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:11

BoleynMemories13 · 19/02/2025 09:38

Whilst this behaviour is completely unacceptable and I'm very sorry to hear your child was hurt, you say the child was excluded? That to me suggests that this school does indeed take a hard line against violence and are putting their behaviour policy into practice. I can understand your anger but this is not a case of "my child was hurt and school did nothing". They absolutely did do something. Unfortunately, they did all they could in the circumstances as schools cannot just expell a child. There are massive hoops to jump though first. The exclusion will be part of this hoop jumping.

With all due respect, you and your family have no right to know all the ins and outs of previous incidents with this child, so claiming they have enough evidence for him to be out by now is rubbish. The only incident you will know the ins and outs of us this one, because it involves your child.

I totally understand the hysteria, as your child has been hurt, but the school cannot expell the other child simply because you deem that to be the right action. By all means hold a meeting with the school about how they intend to keep your child safe in future. You can't claim they haven't dealt with this incident though, because that simply isn't true, is it? It isn't their fault that it isn't the level of punishment that you would like to see. You don't set the rules. They are following protocol.

If you intend to pull your child out, nobody is going to stop you, but you are incredibly naive to think violence won't occur elsewhere because sadly that is the reality of what state schools are having to deal with these days. Another state school might not deal with it as adequately, so the grass isn't always greener.

Private don't have to put up with this sh*t in the same way, so it's impossible to compare the two in terms of how it would be dealt with. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford the choice.

So a few points;

  1. I am not arguing that the school have not taken action; my argument is that it is too late. They have had multiple incidents with this child and it should never have gotten to this point.
  2. I know about this because numerous other parents have complained about this same child assaulting their children
  3. I believe I do have a right to know what action has been taken and will be taken to safeguard my child from this child because they have intentionally injured her and may very well do so again.
  4. It simply cant believe that we have got to a place in society that I should expect my 6 year old to be given a bloody nose in the playground and and then sit back and go 'well it happens all the time' so I just have to live with it. Am I seriously to believe that every single primary school in the UK has a problem with violence? Every single one?
  5. Yes we are in a fortunate position to be able to consider private school. But if I had to sell my house to be able to afford the fees so that my child could be protected against assault then that's what I will do.
Whatever sacrifice needs to be made, will be made because I don't think I can sit around and wait for it to get worse.
OP posts:
Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:13

4timesthefun · 19/02/2025 09:40

I’ve been there, OP. We had to remove our 6yr old DD from a school after she was assaulted twice by a group of 10yr olds. School was useless, the rights are firmly with the bullies. The school couldn’t or wouldn’t even sit them off the playground, that would have been unfair to the little dears. The safety of other children is really irrelevant, as long as no bully is having their freedom restricted.

We had to move to a private school and fork out the huge costs. I’m just grateful everyday that we can afford it. I shudder to think of the trauma and mental health consequences my DD would suffer if we had to leave her where she was. The private school is expensive, but has many parents making a tight financial sacrifice for the exact same reason.

I am so sorry to hear this. But it sounds like you did the right thing. We may very well have to make the huge financial sacrifice also 😩

OP posts:
Kibble29 · 19/02/2025 11:13

As an aside, to anyone who works in a teaching role (or parents with any experience):

If you had a case like this where one child has punched another, bursting their nose/lip and the child who was hit then retaliates and beats the first child up, what happens to that child who retaliated?

Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:18

Takoneko · 19/02/2025 09:51

I can’t believe there are seriously people in this world who believe that a PEX is appropriate for a six year old. That’s insane. This child is 6.

A suspension cannot later become a PEX, so you will get nowhere asking for the child to be removed. The school can’t legally issue a PEX for an incident that they have already issued a suspension for.

Having said that, the school are doing a crappy job of managing the situation. If a 6 year old is doing things like that it’s on the adults supervising, not the child. There’s a reason the age of criminal responsibility is 10. The adults supervising a child of 6 are the ones responsible for ensuring the child doesn’t do anything dangerous or criminal. The questions you should be asking is why is there not better supervision and management of behaviour. I don’t think moving your child is a bad idea.

Any school that is “regularly” excluding children of 6 has no business educating children at all though, so I wouldn’t move her anywhere that does that.

I am going to bring up with them that the playground supervision is inadequate. They have not got control of the situation at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:19

PurpleThistle7 · 19/02/2025 09:52

Just to reassure you OP - my son is totally fine, not traumatised at all. Not to say it's okay to get punched in the face, but he really did move on super quickly and has no lingering issues with this child, his school or anything really. And now that he plays football almost every day, he's gotten far more bruises from his teammates than from that one specific incident.

Again - not saying it's a trivial matter, but a lot of how much your daughter will hold on to this is up to you so hopefully she will move on quickly while you figure out what to do next. It's kind of surprising sometimes how much their wee brains reset after something I find quite difficult to forget!

She's totally fine with it! But I'm extremely concerned that she thinks it's normal and so not making a big deal. She's also smart and doesn't want to move schools so I can tell she wants to downplay it so we don't move her.

OP posts:
Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:20

Redfred00 · 19/02/2025 10:11

You need to put everything in writing. Make sure you complain in writing. Write the impact to your child, how the school is failing to safeguard her, and how they aren't meeting their own policy. Be sure yto quote their own policy back to them. Also take pictures of any injuries.

Unfortunately, your school isn't unusual. My daughter was attacked several times in nursery. The child scratched her face more than once and she has a scar. I complained several times in writing. I also took photos of the injuries and took them to a meeting with the head. He put an extra TA in the class.

In reception and year one another kid started throwing things. She got hit in the head 3 times in 6 weeks. She was scared to go to school because the child started throwing chairs. Several parents did written complaints. He was moved to a different class eventually. During every communication its been about how they will support that child. in the end I told the " with all due respect the support and intervention you offer him are not my concern. I care about my child and her wellbeing. What support are you offering her.

Good idea. I will put everything in writing.

OP posts:
Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:21

BobbyBiscuits · 19/02/2025 10:13

That's horrendous. Every child in that school is probably in danger if their reaction to punching a six year old is one days extra holiday!
The child who punches must have got it from home so maybe him and his family are also being abused? The whole thing sounds bang out of order. Definitely complain and move your child.

Will show our displeasure in the meeting and I'm filling out forms to move her at the moment. I need a back up plan if they can't get their act together.

OP posts:
Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 11:22

Kibble29 · 19/02/2025 11:13

As an aside, to anyone who works in a teaching role (or parents with any experience):

If you had a case like this where one child has punched another, bursting their nose/lip and the child who was hit then retaliates and beats the first child up, what happens to that child who retaliated?

Typically they would receive a significant consequence. Much like in the real world - self defence fine but beating someone up crosses a line.

Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:23

treesandteas · 19/02/2025 10:16

I used to be a teacher and was in a situation exactly like this one. I had a child in my class whose behaviour was so unhinged, they were a threat to everyone’s safety. Their mental health was spiralling and they weren’t given any boundaries, and the other children were paying the price. I pleaded with the headteacher to do something but was essentially ignored.

The school had already permanently excluded so many children that excluding him would have sent alarm bells ringing, so they were basically putting up with it and hoping the mother would pull him out and send him elsewhere. Some schools care more about their reputation than they do about their children. Complain to the headteacher, write to Ofsted, giving clear examples of why your child isn’t safe. The school will pick the easiest path to a good reputation.

I’m sorry about your daughter and I hope she’s okay.

I am so sorry to hear this. We will definitely be complaining. I need to hear a serious response and plan moving forward to even consider keeping her there.

OP posts:
ExpressCheckout · 19/02/2025 11:25

she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose

Right, if someone punched me in the face, leaving me with a bleeding nose, I would be calling the police, not Ofsted. They might not be criminally responsible at this age, but there are still legal remedies.

Original poster
MovingMad87 · 19/02/2025 11:25

Weddingbells6 · 19/02/2025 10:31

Is it more than 1 form entry? I.e more than one year 1 class? If so, ask for her to be moved into a different class first, especially if the school in general is satisfactory. It’s really hard to have a child excluded and I think a suspension for a year 1 child was a good effort from the HT who has to be very, very careful about discrimination cases etc. Some classes are just awful and a horrible mix and it sounds like your daughter is unlucky to be in one. I think if a boy is punching a girl in the face at that age then he is likely to be a problem for quite a long time - it will take school a long time to exclude him, legal hoops to jump through etc. I would certainly consider a move in schools if the above isn’t an option, especially in Y1 as she’ll likely make friends etc easily. I’m a primary school teacher btw and had a child like this for a long time and I was not supported at all by the HT, he was very rarely suspended, she would make him come and say sorry but he didn’t mean it and she let him stay all the way to Y6, it was awful for those he targeted.

Edited

Yeah I'm not sticking around for that kind of thing to happen.

OP posts:
verysmellyjelly · 19/02/2025 11:25

You're completely right, OP. No child should have to face violence like this in their classroom, and schools need to be far more swift to remove children who act out in such an awful way. It sounds like a serious assault. I just do not understand the posters on Mumsnet who make excuse after excuse for violent children who terrify others and make school a frightening, even traumatising place. Young children shouldn't be at the mercy of the most violent in their age cohort! (And I'm speaking as an autistic woman, before someone accuses me of having it out for SEN children. I don't think it's fair at all to assume that violence is because of SEN.)

crumblingschools · 19/02/2025 11:27

It does sometimes take a PEX (permanent exclusion) for a LA to finally sit up and move a child up a waiting list for help

Most posters on here aren’t excusing the child’s behaviour and saying it is fine. What they are doing is explaining it is not that simple to implement a PEX and there is so little funding for intervention/support for child and families.

I think the average number of children with SEND in schools is 18%, but many mainstream schools will be closer to 30% or more. Not all of these children will be violent but many will struggle in mainstream

Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 11:29

ExpressCheckout · 19/02/2025 11:25

she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose

Right, if someone punched me in the face, leaving me with a bleeding nose, I would be calling the police, not Ofsted. They might not be criminally responsible at this age, but there are still legal remedies.

What legal remedies?

ExpressCheckout · 19/02/2025 11:30

Ritzybitzy · 19/02/2025 11:29

What legal remedies?

Show quote history

https://www.gov.uk/child-under-10-breaks-law

Strictlymad · 19/02/2025 11:33

A punch that causes a nose bleed has to be pretty forceful! This is shocking for children so young. I do agree with other posters that maybe the schools hands are tied, teacher is alone with large class so hard to suit all needs etc etc but I agree with the op- of the school can’t keep your child safe from violence then parents can and should move their kids to anther school, be it private or other wise. I wouldn’t let my kids get beaten up cuz awww the teacher is doing their best! I’m sure the teacher is but it doesn’t mean parents sit back and watch

verysmellyjelly · 19/02/2025 11:34

@crumblingschools It may not be simple to exclude a violent child at the moment, okay, but it ought to be made simpler. Why should all the other children in the cohort have to go into school daily and serve as a ready made pool of victims for the violent child? I'm not saying a violent child shouldn't receive more positive, individual interventions, but so often there seems to be an assumption that the other children are acceptable collateral damage (I don't mean by you personally, of course, just the general tenor of threads like these).

Sue3467 · 19/02/2025 11:34

Yes this is not normal. There should be zero tolerance on violence. TBh my son has been violent to other children in retaliation for their own violence toward him and - such is the policy of the school my son was in trouble for retaliating. They hurt at the time but I now see it's the only way to set a strict policy. I would def put your concerns in writing with the school and ask what safeguarding measures are in place and how this can be improved. Year 1 it's manageable but kids are very strong by Year 6 and you don't want any harm to come by then.