Primary School punch - AIBU?

[MovingMad87]

DD is in Year 1 (6 years old). A few days ago, I got a call from her school saying she had been punched in the face by a boy in her class, leaving her with a bleeding nose. Awful.

The school explained that DD had been trying to stop this boy from grabbing her friend by the neck. She asked him to stop and told him he should apologise. In response, he punched her. The school suspended him for a day before half-term as a result.

This boy has a history of violent behaviour; scratching, kicking, and punching other children. The school is aware of the issue but as of now haven't really done anything about it.

A few weeks ago, I overheard DDs form tutor telling a parent that their child had a bad day. The teacher had bruises down her leg from being kicked by a different child. While that wasn't the same boy, it reinforced my growing concern that this level of violence is being normalised in the classroom. When I asked DD about it, she wasn't even particularly shocked; apparently, incidents like this happen all the time.

Now, I'm thinking I need to move my child to another school. Possibly private, but I'd rather explore good state school options first. I'll hear what the school has to say in the meeting, but for me, a punch in the face is a red line. A 6-year-old should not be dealing with this. Either the school removes this child, or we leave.

AIBU? Would you move your child?

@Ritzybitzy it seems like your solution is that I should just put up with it and wait for it to happen again because nothing can be done?!?

I get it OP and what happened is horrible. I would just gently say there really aren’t schools that can guarantee that this won’t happen elsewhere. Both at state and private. You don’t know what they have done and they have suspended the boy so they are aware and dealing with it. I think you have to balance this with how much your daughter is settled and happy at her school.

What I think is quite interesting when posters on MN were scornful of parents who were complaining about Labour putting VAT on private school fees. Many of these parents are the ones who have had to turn to private school just like OP is now contemplating. Not because they want an elite education but because they want their child to feel safe

What a nightmare for you 😭 She's ok but I'm very concerned the whole thing has been normalised and I don't want that for her at all.

No one has said nothing can be done. They’ve said PEX isn’t the go to solution and what has or is being done is not something that should be or can be discussed with you.

Why would they receive a significant consequence? I thought there wasn't meant to be any punitive response? Or would it only be the child defending themselves that got the significant consequence, the child who was initially violent has no consequence?

Exactly this

But OP this is the same in private school so please don’t be swayed by it being private that it will automatically be better . Many parents put their kids in private school who are struggling at state school (including excluded kids) or councils pay for kids that need extra attention into private school. This is because they need more 1-1 attention and have a host of SEN needs which the private schools are better able to accommodate.

Not what I said at all. What I said was schools cannot and shouldn’t exclude kids as a go to if there is violence at age 6. And that whatever is or is not done is not something they should be discussing with you.

if you want to move your child that is your right and I suspect the right thing given your approach to the situation and entitlement regarding what schools can do and what information should be shared with you. Primary schools don’t have time to deal with this.

but as a side note - your child shouldn’t have got involved. Kids of this age are clearly instructed at this age to get an adult and not try to manage situations. Because the end result is always escalation rather than de escalation. Before you come at me for victim blaming I am not but as a parent your child does need some help on protective behaviours, if she comes across a violent situation at the age of 6 she shouldn’t insert herself into it. She needs to get an adult. Quickly.

It is better because they can just remove the kids. And they do because otherwise they lose fees.

All parents want their children to feel and be safe in schools. Not all of them have the option to go private.

Exactly. Fucking mental.

If some little runt hits my child and he sticks up for himself and makes sure it never happens again, you can rest assured we’re going for ice cream that night. 😎

Because an impulsive smack in the face is not the same as beating someone up.

But, and in my line of work this is obvious, any consequence (which isn’t always punitive by the way) would factor in needs and circumstances of the child. For example we had two fights in school last term involving different students. First fight, neither child had any needs. Both in year 11. Absolutely no contact which made this remotely ok. Both were given a suspension and have been told their place on the year 11 end of school trip is now up for discussion.

Second fight involved a year 9 and 10. Year 10 no needs but they have a nasty habit of baiting kids that they know have needs. Year 10 was put in behaviour unit and because they’ve hit the maximum number of days of suspension is likely going to face PEX if there are any more incidents. They year 9 has a high level of need and a very difficult home life. On CIN plan. They were not given a suspension despite actually being more violent, they’ve been put into ELSA, have an outreach worker and will soon start protective behaviours again. They are also enhanced key worker support. This kid is actually delightful and the only one of the 3 who showed any remorse of any level.

And the cycle continues. When you take the time to talk to those violent little runts it’s very rare they don’t consider the attack self defence.

@Ritzybitzy I think that's unfair. What you are suggesting leaves me and my child completely powerless and at the mercy of a violent child with absolutely no way forward. You don't think I have the right to know about any previous steps they have taken and you don't think I have the right to know about anything they will do in the future. On top of that, you think my 6 year olds reaction to her friend being strangled is to 'walk away' and find a teacher (who are not there by the way, only TA's). She, rightly in my opinion, tried to stop her friend being hurt.

I don't doubt that schools are under resourced and under pressure but if the best they can do is tell a parents who's child has been punched in the face, nothing about what they have done or intend to do then that's not good enough.

You can't expect 6 year olds children to put up with consistent violence in class and their parents to not be told about measures in place. I just can't agree on that.

I don't see anywhere in your comments a desire to protect the innocent kids who just want to learn and I can't understand that!

Oh you ABSOLUTELY are victim blaming!!
Your attitude is frankly disturbing if you actually are in education, completely defending the violent child 'oh at 6, they don't know!!' But yet @MovingMad87s child who is the same age, is to be blamed for getting violently assaulted for not knowing to do 'the right thing'
And calling her 'entitled' for being distressed about this assault and not wanting it to happen again?

That’s the thing, how it all seems to be normalised now and I know it’s not as easy as just excluding children who are violent but why should ours and other children go into school daily and not know from one day to next if they are going to be safe or hurt.

I have asked our school specifically where is the line with this behaviour, how many times can you follow the policy before you realise it’s not enough!!

our previous head quoted to me when my DS was strangled that it’s pretty much ok, he didn’t die or anything and he only told me
because DS will. I’m pretty sure if he knew I wouldn’t have found out he would not of said and it makes me wonder what else schools hide from parents.

What makes you think you have the right to any power over another child? The supporting or consequence of that child is between the child / their parents and the school. You have no right to that information or to be involved in that process. You knowing what’s happened or what is happening changes nothing. Suppose I told you the child is a victim of sexual assault and in care, do you really have a right to that information? If your child misbehaved would
you want information shared with parents? Data protection is absolutely applicable and should be. You being informed or not makes no difference and knowing doesn’t give you power. It just means you know something that makes no difference.

Also - I did not say walk away. I said get adult help. Completely different. A TA is more than capable of managing a situation like that.

State schools don’t have the ability to ‘remove’ children (I assume you mean expel them) unless there is another educational facility for them to move to.

@Liguria

Nice username! My family is from there.

The school will have lots of documentation that you aren’t privy to. We get risk assessments and some children are under preventative protocols. What parents of children who are getting hurt need to do is be in regular communication with the teachers and senior leadership team. I also tell my child to just give the children prone to disregulation lots of space. When my child was being hurt fairly regularly I had a meeting with the teacher who escalated it further and thankfully preventative measures were put in place and my child hadn’t been hurt since.

I am happy to be seen defending the violent child. I will defend all children.

the fact that we are at a point where highlighting the safe way of dealing with a situation has become victim blaming is in itself a symptom of this current issue. Do you leave your door open at night? Of course not. If you did and someone walked in flagging that locking your door would probably have prevented it from happening would fall into category of victim blaming but that doesn’t alter you shouldn’t leave your door open. We are all responsible to choices to keep us safe and are responsible for teaching our children the same.

Now to be clear.

What happened to the child is awful. And she should be supported. The school should be made aware although they clearly are and I would expect school to keep a closer eye on those two.

But.

there is no scenario ever where a 6 year old engaging in behaviour like this should be made an exhibition of. The child should be supported and helped to learn. Not the victim of a witch hunt. Or serious extreme punitive measures that will affect his entire schooling life. He should be supported. And no parents have the right to know what that support is or what the next steps are.

@Ritzybitzy to clarify; the playground oversight seems to be seriously lacking and the TA's clearly can't handle it as, strangling, punching and kicking happen in the playground on a regular basis.

In addition, since the first incident of strangling happened 8 months ago the violent behaviour has escalated so I can only conclude that whatever steps have been taken thus far have not worked. The behaviour is getting worse not better.

The main flaw in your argument for me is that, whilst this child is getting 'supported' everyone else suffers. And to me that is not acceptable.

I think private school might be best for you OP. Go and have a look around at some.