ok, ds2 claims the teacher pushed him, what can I expect to happen?

[kittywise]

Ds2(8) has a supply teacher covering for a teacher on maternity leave.
The class do not like the supply teacher, but I have said to ds2 that he just has to put up with it etc.
Today he came home and told me she had pushed him on the chest when telling him to sit back down.
Now he can be a naughty boy at times, not awful, just pushing the boundaries like many 8 year old boys, I am under no illusions.
After great questioning and giving him a chance to 'retract ' the statement I phoned the head and told him what ds had told me.
So, now what can I expect to happen?
I wish none of this had happened, either way it's a very tricky situation.

I would have said to ds something like, 'that doesn't sound nice (sympathetic) and reassured him it wouldn't happen again, especially if he were behaving himself' (arch look).

Then in the back of my mind, if I were concerned, I'd either keep a watchful eye and bide my time since she isn't going to be there for long, or if more concerned, speak directly to the class teacher to get the rounded picture. Tbh with 30 'witnesses' and probably a TA in the room, I wouldn't think anything too untoward happened.

There was a poster on here yesterday complaining about her sons teacher leaving him in wet clothes for a while.

Is this a lot worse than shoving/pushing a child?

As that thread was far more sympathetic, when, in principle, they are both complaint threads about a teacher.

Personally I would hate either to happen to my child. I wouldn't like her to be shoved either gently or roughly by someone in a bullying manner. (I know the teacher was NOT bullying, but shoving/pushin is not needed in a classroom with a child.)

I don't think I would have went over the teachers head & saw the principal, but everyone differs.

I hope it's resolved.

By the way, I wasn't looking for sympathy by re-telling my experiences from the other day - it was an illustration of each circumstance being unique. and touched as I am that other posters have shown me nothing but sympathy and understanding, I don't see how the statement can be made about "every teacher (except Moomin)" . Surely there are going to other situations, like mine, where that teacher was doing their best but made the wrong judgement?

fwiw, it sounds like maybe the supply teacher is struggling, but the situation still warrants investigation on both sides, not knee-jerk reactions.

Back in the day, if we were punished at school for something, we'd get punished again at home. It was always best to be silent on these matters. How the tables have turned.

iamdingdong, I haven't changed my story.

The the thing that astounds me and has riled me is that you all think it's perfectly alright for her to have done it.

I'll say again that I think a teacher should be obeyed and that 'punishment' should be meted out as appropriate.

It is my opinion (obviously) that it is not ok to push a child to make him sit down/ do what he's told. There are other ways.

Both ds and his teacher did a wrong thing. However, he is 8 years old and she is a 'professional' adult.

Twiglet, I will speak calmly to his teacher tomorrow ,as I said what has pissed me of are some of the comments here.
I am amazed at the majority take on things but I am pissed of by the tone of some posters and the way that some have angled it as my child was naughty what did I expect? etc.

He's a child , she's an adult and should have better control of herself.

I'll leave it at that.

YouKnowNothingOfTheCrunch on Wed 12-Mar-08 19:05:51
I have to say what I picture when you say what happens is your ds leaning forwards kneeling, and the teacher gently placing her hand on him, applying minimal pressure to sit him back down - not shoving or jerking him back, just gently pressuring him into place. Any child would describe this as a push - it is a descriptive word that states that a force was applied, it doesn't indicate the amount of force.

Thats what I pictured as well, nothing wrong in that whatsoever.

I think the problem is that the word pushing can mean so many things, particularly when in the mouth of of an upset child. It could cover anything from a gently guiding hand to a real shove.
I have a very clear memory of myself at age 8 lying on the floor screaming at my Mum (a totally non-smacking parent) 'you kicked me! you kicked me!' because she had given me the most gentle little nudge with her foot. I was half aware at the time that I probably wouldn't have felt it at all if I hadn't been so cross, but I instinctively feel this was a way to get a reaction. (Not suggesting of course that your son is anything like the little horror I was). I fully agree that physical punishment is not ok, but think it very important that both sides should be heard, and preferably some neutral witness. I have to say I have known my own children to over-report things from school where I have then had the chance to speak to calmer eye-witnesses.

I'm actually amazed at the amount of people that think this is ok! It's not, at all. She shouldn't have pushed him. He's 8, still so young. My 6 year old is so sensitive and if someone pushed her I would be straight up the school and sort it out.

It's bullying imo, pure and simple. Even if, as some have suggested, that it was gentle there is no need for it. Speach should be enough, no push is required.

What sort of adults do we want to raise? Ones that do what they're told, obey without thinking and are quiet? It starts now and this is when they learn about who they are so if they learn to be pushed about and bullied they will think that's ok.

We shall see what happens at school this morning. I spoke to a good friend yesterday whose son is in the same class. She says that he now refuses to do any work at all for this teacher. He is stressed and unhappy.
Something is going on.

This is all so very sad. When I was young I remember being smacked across the arse by my teacher for not turning around in my seat (after being asked several times) I went home and told my mother and got another smack for not doing as I was told. I never disobeyed a teacher again.

I think we as parents have been conditioned to think this is wrong - and our children have picked this up. It?s such a difficult job for teachers to gain full control now. I'm not saying that children should be beaten but there has to be an element of fear in order to gain the respect - that?s what?s missing in this country.

If the rules of behaviour and respect for authority are learnt at school it would surely solve a lot of the problems we have with our youth of today (god I sound old now)

Kitty, I think from the time you said 'the whole class hate' this teacher, It came across to me that your child knows you think this, therefore the respect has been lost, which is a shame. This teacher could now have a complaint attached to her record wherever she goes and for what? teaching a child to behave?

I think you will probably find that she had to ask him more than once to sit back down and even if she didn't, the 'sit back' bit tells me he shouldn't have been up in the first place. Thats the bit you need to be addressing - with your son.

I agree with kittywise and I also find it very conserning that other parents don't feel the same.
Teachers should have control over a class room without having to get physical. It doesnt matter if her ds was hurt or not if he was physically shoved that is not acceptable!
It demonstates a lack of control.
If that happend at dd's school then the child would have been put on a warning or send to the head.
Children learn by example and I would be far from happy if my child was learning to get physical if someone doesnt comply!
I am also very suprised at this thread!

This thread demonstrates what is wrong with our schools. Children defy teachers and then when they are reprimanded, go running to Mummy and Daddy who instead of reading them the riot act about their defiant behaviour, moddle coddle their spoilt brats before they go gunning for the teacher.

Children behave the way they do because too many parents undermine the teachers instead of supporting them when they administer discipline. The children of such parents know this and they exploit it with relish.

As for the comment, that the teacher does things that the class don't like, for heaven sakes, teachers are there to teach a topic, not to indulge precious off-spring!!

You know I have read all through the posts and it is a world away from how things used to be when I was a child and there was the threat of caning if disobedient.

If you got caned at school,and went home and told your mum she'd give you a clip round the ear for good measure too, not go running to the school to complain.

I personally don't think physical punishment is right but have to say that it is true that some parents can be so protective of their children that they can create an atmosphere where bright children very quickly realise that they can wield some sort of power with an accusation.

I will tell you one thing, I would never want to be a teacher and I am in awe of anyone who would want to nowadays.

You need to have a word with your dd and tell him it was wrong for the teacher to push him but it was also wrong for him to disobey her and he must to be more respectful to his teachers from now on.

You don?t want to put all the blame on the supply teacher, and justify your dd behaviour by saying she is a bad teacher because no one in class likes her and she shouts at the children all the time.

I wonder is your dd one of the children refusing to do work in class? Did he tell the other children this supply teacher is in trouble because mum has complained to the head? It seems to me some of the children in his class have learnt it?s fine to push the boundaries with this teacher.

A gain, I'll say that for me it ha nothing to do with WHAT he has done/ hasn't done. There is no justification for a teacher pushing a child.
He is always told by me to do as he's told and that if he's 'naughty' he must accept the 'punishment. I'm always telling him to keep his head down, get on with the work, do what he's told, keep the teacher happy, try his best etc etc.
I support the school behaviour policy.
I do not think it is ok for an adult to push a child full stop and ESPECIALLY not his teacher
I looked up the education act 1996 and its policies on using reasonable force in school.
The circumstances at school yesterday to not come anyway NEAR the bounds described in the paper.

Anyway if you would like an update. The head has not said anything to me yet, although we did chat about other things things morning. I would be happy for this 'incident' to merely be logged.

i did mention it to a couple of other mothers this morning and apparently a log is being kept of complaints about this teacher so i am clearly not the only one. I was not aware of any such record being kept. However this supports my feeling that what happened yesterday was just not 'right'

so not only does she have a class of children who are disobedient and refuse to work but she also has a gang of gossiping parents in the playground

what a totally untenable situation, how extremely unnerving.

Some teachers are crap it is true, but I would be so ashamed of my child being in a class where parents feel it is acceptable for children to 'refuse to do their work' .. what on earth have these 8 year olds been brought up to believe? The world revolves around them no doubt.

On a general point (ie not specific to this thread) I agree with the premise that it is the parents' fault that education is breaking down at the moment. I think those posters who are up in arms about a teacher should just teach and control by voice have never been into a classroom in a modern school... nor seen some of the behaviours that some children, coddled children, exhibit.

twig the class is very easy, all their teachers have said so. They are a lovely enthusiastic bunch.
SOMETHING is going on. To have a problem with THAT particular class.... it doesn't make sense.

I have taught some pretty tricky primary classes and I've never needed to push a child to get them to do what they've been told

All this talk of the teacher "bullying" your child is ridiculous IMO. Bullying is sustained behaviour meant to hurt the victim in some way. It could easily be argued that the class is bullying the teacher by refusing to do as she asks/refusing to work etc etc. Heaven knows we did it enough, especially to supply teachers and other easy targets.

A push covers a wide range of actions from gentle pressure to a shove. I don't think anyone hear believes a full blown forceful shove is appropriate but I don't think this is what happened.

I tell you what is happening in that class. The teacher is being undermined and she knows that she is being undermined because of the action of the parents as well as their precious off-spring. That really helps to create a cordial atmosphere to teach in and as for her self-confidence.....

Have any of the concerned parents actually spoken to the teacher or are they just taking the word of their butter would not melt in their mouth cherubs?

yes spokette, many parents have, myself included. I have also offered her my support and thanked her for her work.

The problems started in her first week.

Please don't jump to conclusions.

Yes my children are precious to me, I assume that yours are to you, perhaps i am wrong though

So you still didn't actually bother to speak to the teacher about this then ???

No, having discussed it with a couple of people they thought it was best that it was 'left'. Their opinion was that if I approached her she would immediately be on the defensive and it would make matters worse.
I will have to see what the head says.

Oh. How odd. Of course she will be defensive.
I think that is a shame.

Do you know I am thinking on now and wondering if it is other parents at the school that you have discussed this with. If so I have to say I think that is the worst thing you could have done. You only know one side of it. It will take one hysterical Mum like Jodie and her fragile reputation will be in tatters. You could be doing some serious damage here without all the facts.

kittywise, just read this and am really shocked at the way people have responded. If this was my child I'd be furious, there is no excuse for pushing a child, and shock horror, yes sometimes 8 year olds are naughty and don't do as they are told, but they are children and the teacher is an adult and should discipline him without using physical restraint. Some people on here seem to think you can't get bad teachers. Of course you're going to look out for your own child, it's only natural. I hope it all gets worked out. And I don't see anything wrong with you going to the head, I wouldn't want a confrontation with the teacher in question either.