Told my 4 year old is behind at school

[dual90]

So yesterday we went to parents evening at my DD school. I kind of knew it wouldn’t be all that positive because a week before we had been invited into the school to view one of the classes. My DD was not her best that day, crying and clingy. I noticed she was being placed at the front of the class which I know isn’t a good sign! I come from an education background- so I’m well aware of certain words like ‘interventions’ etc.

My DD is one of the youngest in the class, so she’s on the bottom 5th age bracket as she is a summer baby. The teacher just seemed to focus on the negatives, but threw in she plays well and is happy! But then launched into she’s struggling with the learning and is not ‘retaining’ and information! I did challenge her on this as at home she makes all the sounds for phonics and recognition letters. She’s also been deemed as bright in nursery and counting to 20 since she was 2! She’s interested in numbers and counts a lot and she’s been doing this for a while. She then says she didn’t recognise numbers, again we challenged her on that too as she does recognise them at home. She seemed a little baffled and kept saying she was ‘behind her peers’.

For a start I thought most learning in reception was play based and we would t have this kind of pressure this early only 4 weeks into term and being told she is not matching up! I did say to the teacher that developmentally there is going to be huge differences in learning just by the sheer difference in age for some of the children, she firstly agreed with that then contradicted it by saying she has other kids the same age who are coping fine. But we still said she seems to be doing fine with these things when she’s at home. We also have no idea what it is she is supposed to be learning. She says she’s in a small ‘intervention’ group. I find this concerning that this is already happening and quite worried she will be pigeon holed straight away and this young age. She had never had a problem learning and nobody had flagged this before, in fact I’d say the opposite. Her speech is better than some children that are 2 years older than her. I had reservations about sending her this year anyway, I felt she may not be ready but she really wanted to go. I also am slightly dissolution ed with whole school system anyway, so for me it’s sadly confirmed many reservations I’ve had. I do not want her to be off as a 4 year old and she’s already had a very tough start in life.

The teacher says if she doesn’t catch up now the gap will get bigger, I found this a very negative thing to say. I know in other countries they don’t even start this stuff until 6 or 7? And they do just fine. But straight away the pressure is on. We will try and help her catch up, but just this morning after the teacher said she didn’t recognise numbers we nearly filmed her doing it as she recognised them all!! And she has done for a long time. I did point out to the teacher that she just doesn’t know the name of the game yet and that she needs to know these things, so it’s more immaturity than anything else.

any thoughts or advice

I agree with not letting it become a big thing, if it was missed or help not put in place then you would probably feel angry that stuff hadn’t been picked up. Like you say it’s only reception a lot will change, do you have other DC that have been through the school system?

We have parents evening next week for my August-born Reception child. I fully expect to hear the same. I know that he is behind his peers, especially when it comes to phonics and reading. We have dyslexia in the family so I'm keen to hear if they think that he's within the realms of 'normal' or if there's something more going on. I also expect that he's more advanced in some areas (especially maths) than they know because he's quite quiet. That's okay too and my question will be how to support him in finding his voice at school. For me, it's all useful to know so that we can support him as best we can at home.

Thank you for this thoughtful response. I understand this, but as you can see this came as a surprise. I realise that I may have blown this out of proportion.

We are happy to help he catch up, I guess my post was that really tis is taken me by surprise, she's bright and happy, never at all have I worried about her ability to learn.

I am more surprised the pressure is on this early. I can't believe that age has nothing to do with it as others have tried to say, Ive noticed a huge difference in 3 -4 years and even in her friends who have birthdays a few months before, I can see a difference. She tends to do things when she is ready and always hit milestones in her time. I feel it is the system that is pushing too early and that is what concerns me.

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@dual90 I think you have totally misunderstood me. I'm not saying you are lying at all??? I'm saying that as you say she can do those things (which as I said, I don't doubt! ) that maybe she has mixed up the children or else your child isn't showing at school what she can do.

I'm going to try to explain in so far as I can the thinking behind the system.

So I haven't worked in primary for a while but this was the methods when I did and I can't imagine it's changed much now.

From the system viewpoint it's a question of allocating resources.

There are children who are performing as expected both academically and socially just from being in the classroom and having the normal teaching. This is wave 1.

There are children who are not performing as expected. Most reception classes will know who they are on entry to the school as they get a report from nursery/pre school where the children are being constantly assessed against the eyfs.

The report might look something like this www.wigan.gov.uk/Docs/PDF/Business/Professionals/CompletedexampleProgressReport.pdf

For these children, the school will run group interventions (wave 2). These could be for social and emotional skills for example www.elsa-support.co.uk/what-is-elsa-intervention/ or for phonics or maths.

For some children these interventions get them back on track and then they are fine and don't need any more.

For other children, the group interventions don't really work. These are the children who the school will then do focused work with on a 1:2 or 1:1 basis as they aren't keeping up through wave 1 (in the classroom) or wave 2 (group intervention).

Schools really want to keep track of what is going on with these kids, as while some will have a developmental leap and catch up, others won't. And the ones who won't are the kids that need much more additional support and where schools need to be on the ball with looking out for dyslexia, learning difficulties, etc and then going through the EHCP process to fund that additional support.

Perfectly explained I hope this helps with OPs questions and worries I am thinking she may not be British so doesn’t fully understand our education system so can put her mind at rest

If the school are following a phonics scheme like Little Wandle, then the bottom 20% (as calculated by the online assessments which are specific to the scheme) HAVE to be in intervention groups after 4 weeks, otherwise the school is not showing 'fidelity to the scheme' and will be hauled over the coals by Ofsted. Readiness to learn is not taken in to account. Age is not taken into account. Similarly, the Reception Baseline Assessment doesn't take age into account, and neither does the EYFSP at the end of the year. Ridiculous, but there you have it.

What I'm trying to convey is that is not the fault of the school, but the fault of the powers that be who put ridiculous expectations on tiny children and their teachers (whose performance is judged on all of the children meeting said ridiculous expectations). As a former Reception teacher, I certainly would have kept the first parents evening a lot lighter, but I would have had to mention interventions etc as part of it.

I haven't had time to read the other replies yet but as a Reception teacher I felt compelled to respond to this.

Firstly I'm so sorry you've had a negative experience at parents evening. Personally I prefer to focus on how the child has settled in, how well they follow rules and how they mix with children on the first parents evening. It's far too early in the year to be labelling children as behind. I give parents tips for how they can support their child's learning, but I don't go any further into the academic stuff as so much can change between now and the next parents evening in the spring term (where I do focus more on the academic side).

Even if your child's teacher does choose to focus on the academic side at this early stage, they were very unprofessional to compare your child to others. This is a big no no in my book and quite a concerning attitude.

The interventions wouldn't actually concern me, as long as they're delivered in a fun and playful way. It's good that they've identified that your child could potentially do with a boost, and have put things in place to try and prevent her potentially falling behind (as opposed to 'further behind', as I don't believe there's such thing as being behind in Autumn 1 of Reception). Kids who don't appear to recognise any letter sounds one week can suddenly know all of the taught sounds the following week, once it starts clicking. It just takes some a little longer than others. Not being there yet is not a sure indicator that they will always struggle. That's quite an ott reaction on their part.

I have little interventions up and running already to support those we've identified as needing a bit of extra support at this stage but that's all it is, extra support. It doesn't mean those children will always struggle. The hope is that they won't be required for long. That's surely the aim of an intervention isn't it? If it becomes long term it's clearly not working! So in terms of effective interventions, I'd actually say the earlier the better.

If you know your daughter can actually do a lot of the things they think she can't yet, I'd suggest she simply doesn't feel comfortable to share her true abilities with them yet. That's quite normal at this early stage, especially for children who are naturally shy.

To be honest, if you're happy with how your daughter is getting on I'd take their concerns with a pinch of salt for now. Continue to support her at home and sit back and wait for her to prove them wrong, when she's ready.

If they do keep pushing this idea that a 4 year old is behind and comparing her to her peers though I would perhaps start to question whether this is the right school for her after all.

It's likely it could be a confidence issue rather than lack of knowledge. Small group work will help with the structure of class based learning.

I too am surprised that DD was compared to other dc by the teacher but we do keep comparing those summer borns (negatively) all the time. It’s an obsession. It’s become impossible not to think being a summer born is a huge disadvantage.

The year before my DD1 went to school in January, at 4 yrs 5 months, YR would have started for her after Easter. So 1 term of YR for summer borns. If every school went back to that, they would save money but I’m beginning to think many parents don’t value YR for summer borns, so why not go back to this? DD was treading water at nursery before she started school. Happy but very much ready for school.

It’s also wrong to think other countries don’t assess or don’t let Dc get on if they are bright enough to do so despite starting formal school later. It’s quality of teaching that makes the biggest difference to learning in school, or earlier, but if you don’t like this school perhaps a change would be beneficial? You won’t get away from assessment though . Great schools are ones that notice that help is needed and do something about it.

My dd born end of August, youngest in the year group was ahead of all her peers right through primary. I know this because I was told she was. Nothing we did or didn't do it's just who she was. I remember parents evening in reception, they told me she was exceeding or whatever they call it, first thing I said was I don't really care about that just tell me if she's happy and making friends. Her school is not results focused but they did put pressure on, I think they wanted to have these gifted dc to make the school look good, it was the undoing of dd. She became anxious and as the years went on fell out of love with learning and education. I wish I'd have put my foot down back then and stopped them making such a big deal of it.

My Nov born dd is one of the older ones and was behind in reception, guess what I said at parents evening, "I don't care, is she making friends and is she happy". They did put her in a little intervention group and she has caught up. This time I had learnt my lesson and I didn't allow it to burden dd who is still happy at school and still loves to learn.

It's nothing to do with age and everything to do with personality of both child and teacher. Some teachers can shrug off the pressure from above to reach targets and some stick to them religiously. Teachers really are invaluable but can make or break a child's love for learning even in the early years.

And I am saying in a home environment she is able to do those things. I am not lying. And no she hasn’t mixed the children up. My thought is she is not comfortable in this setting yet.

I lived in other countries and no they don’t assess this early. Also even if you send your child to a private school they assess and do things differently than in mainstream. It’s more the powers that be and the way we’ve turned schools into exam factories in this country that is utterly obsessed.

it’s the fault of the system, not the child or the teacher.

I know in Scandinavia it’s playbased learning until 7 . There is not a huge emphasis on assessments this early. And it’s not compulsory either. It’s wrong to say there is not an issue with our system and it’s no different anywhere else.

I’m British but live in Canada. My kid is 5.5 and has just started school. None of the kids in his class can read or write or count to 20 yet. It’s considered normal so I’m not worried, there’s plenty of time for all that. The very idea that a 4 year old could be “behind” in anything is ridiculous to me. They’re 4 fgs! (And I say that as a former teacher).

I have many friends that are teachers, and I am from a similar background. They’d disagree with you on age, most say that summer born children are instantly at a disadvantage.

The same as their is a difference in girls and boys at this age too.

I know! This is the point I’m trying to make. In fact my child can already count to 20. That’s not required at school ! But they are telling me already she is behind.

Thank you for this response, it’s a lot to take in and I certainly wasn’t expecting this at all.

Completely agree, this is really the point of my post. I’m not blaming the teacher to be honest as I know it’s the ridiculous expectations from above.

Well this is the point I was trying to make really. Ridiculous.

I am British. I get they have to follow a scheme and they are tied into this, other things not taken into account. I’m pointing out at this stage it’s slightly ridiculous.

Op has posted 29 posts, but had failed to take on board anything. She just continues to state that she is shocked and surprised? And? So what?

You also keep contradicting yourself. She's had a rough start? She fine. But she's not becarse she's sometimes crying and she's coming home sometimes rattled and tired.

What are you actually going to do? On a practical level.
Why didn't you ask teacher specifically exactly what she was going to do to address it? And ask teacher exactly what she wanted you to do to address it?

You keep saying that dd doesn't realise that dd needs to shoe school that she can do it. As she does at home. But that actually is a massive issue. So have you actually done anything? Sat dd down and talked to her about this?

She doesn't "get" sitting and learning? What? Did you not talk to her about what school would be like as opposed to nursery? What prep did you do? She's "immature" and "isn't bothered" by producing the requested work?

Ask to look at the baseline assessments and then work specifically on the bits where she is behind.

I agree with you OP. This is madness after only being in school a few weeks.

I have a summer born who was also prem. We were encouraged not to hold her back a year but with hindsight I wish we had. She really struggled in reception. She has caught up a little bit each year. She is now in year 5 and still catching up. We've also had covid in the mix, which hasn't helped, as it was so disruptive to those key early years for her.

I'm encouraged by the posters on this thread with high achieving summer borns who also struggled in the early years of school.

I think you should be pleased that the school have already made sure she is getting the help she needs. The wording of 'behind' was poorly chosen though, I think that the teacher could've considered how they phrased it more carefully.

Doing something at home is very different to being able to do so at school, this is something that is really common in reception. I find it rather odd that you made a video to show to the teacher. Counting to 20 is different to understanding what the numbers mean and in phonics children are sometimes taught some of the sounds incorrectly at home 'luh' instead of 'lll' for example.

The interventions will solidify her learning and help to build her confidence, which can only be a good thing.