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Primary education

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Original poster

Atheist in Roman Catholic Primary - experiences sought, please.

267 replies

ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 16:14

We have relocated and been advised that our two options going in at this stage to Year 3 are the Roman Catholic school, which is a very quick walk from home, or the no-religion school which is over an hour's walk away (traffic dire at peak times, I don't want to drive anyway). We could home ed in the hope that a closer non-religious school comes up for September - the LA says there is often movement at this stage in this borough.
DD is happy to see out this term home edded, as am I, but equally, ok to start if a preferred place is offered.

I am vehemently atheist. I cannot stand the religious imposition in schools. But the prospect of a short walk every day, Vs a very very long one, are giving me pause. I'd like for DD to make local friends, not ones who live over an hour's walk away, or further.

I wonder how seriously pushy most Catholic primaries are in this regard. Atheist patents with any experience or views? We will not go to church. I don't want DD being told god is real. (Unless during now and then, proof materialises.)

Other considerations.
RC school is one-form entry.
Non-religious one with current space is SIX-form entry.
Non-religious one with no space but may have space in September is four-form.
Would you pick the tiny RC school or the much bigger ones, if you had the choice?

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:33

sashagabadon · 20/04/2023 17:32

I misread your username as Sacred Heart ( good catholic username 😁)

It was a play on that!

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:34

Phineyj · 20/04/2023 16:39

Schools vary. Have you actually visited it?

You are aware that the UK doesn't have "non religious schools", right?

Schools can be surprisingly keen on religion even if it doesn't say so "on the "tin".

Always best to visit.

Lining up a visit soon. Website is full on religious though.

But so is the Anglican school the other side of me, and I met a parent of a child there, and he said it wasn't religious day to day.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:37

shattered25 · 20/04/2023 16:44

Hmm not sure about catholic. I was in a Christian school but it was all inclusive and open for everyone, and mainly focused on learning, so assembly had lots of music where we would guess the instruments used and composers so you would never know it was Christian but we had a catholic headmistress take over and it became hard core. She removed our theatre shows for nativity, heavily biased shows we were all really upset, assembly became hymns and prayers. I always saw catholic as the more extreme side of Christianity, I may be wrong but where I live it was x

Yes, my catholic experiences in school Vs my Anglican home and church as a child confirm (no pun intended) that Catholics can be way way more full on.
Also depends on the individual.
Headmistress at my primary school was a terrifying nun, who'd shame us every Monday morning assembly for not going to her church (even though my mother was very religious and we went to the Anglican church). Other teachers were not all nuns, and were much more balanced.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:38

90yomakeuproom · 20/04/2023 16:48

Year 3 in a RC school is probably the most religious year group as the children will take part in their Holy Communion. They'll do at least 2 hours of RE a week which will be heavily Catholic focussed and will do multiple acts of collective worship per day as well as assemblies and mass.

I definitely won't be having my DD do HC. Argh. I'll see how it is at this school when we visit.

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sashagabadon · 20/04/2023 17:39

Well your choice but if you do send your kids don’t make comments about “ ramming bible stories down kids throats” or telling kids “ god is real” because they will absolutely do both. Because it is what catholics believe and it is a catholic school.
It would be massively offensive to do so. Just send your kids to the other school and then you don’t need to worry about it.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:39

SmurfHaribos · 20/04/2023 16:50

You could of course let the child go to the school and hear the other point of view. They could then make up their own minds.

If it were balanced, maybe. If other religions were represented, alongside no religions, ok.

I very much doubt DD will discover god.

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KitKatLove · 20/04/2023 17:39

ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:31

I am happy for my kids to learn about all religions. I am not happy for them to have Catholicism rammed down their throats as though the bible stories are fact.

Show quote history

When I went to school in the 1980s there were a handful of children from a couple of families who were Jehovahs Witnesses and they never came to the assembly because of the prayers etc. They always sat in the school library. Maybe schools still make this sort of concession? I appreciate I went to school a lifetime ago.

KitKatLove · 20/04/2023 17:42

BTW my daughter went to a catholic secondary school and any faith she may have had was definitely removed by the time she finished there.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:48

sashagabadon · 20/04/2023 17:30

If you are an atheist and you feel that strongly then you should not be sending your kids to a catholic school imo. It’s confusing fir your kids and not fair on the school.
Year 3 is also when the kids do first holy communion and a lot of time is taken up with that ( classes usually each week after church for the whole year more or less and it’s mentioned in school too) and come May/June next year it’s all everyone is talking about.
assemblies are religious, class projects might be. I remember a year 5 assembly all about the beatitudes! Prayers beginning and end of day, lots of hymn singing and masses at certain times of year too,

I obviously do feel strongly. I also feel that an hour's commute every morning, and every afternoon, takes a toll, is a huge chunk of time that DD could be going to extra curricular activities or playing with local friends, or chilling at home, not having to walk or cycle in all weathers.

The school does say on their website that they accept non-Catholics. And they are undersubscribed, whereas all but the one an hour away are full. So, maybe Catholicism is on its way out, and Catholic representation in schools is way less than it was.

I don't think DD will find it confusing, more a waste of time. I have explained that the local school is religious, the distant one is not. Or we wait til September and home the other non-religious one a 15min walk away has a space become available. DD happy to home ed if so.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:49

KitKatLove · 20/04/2023 17:39

When I went to school in the 1980s there were a handful of children from a couple of families who were Jehovahs Witnesses and they never came to the assembly because of the prayers etc. They always sat in the school library. Maybe schools still make this sort of concession? I appreciate I went to school a lifetime ago.

Show quote history

I would not mind this. DD would happily read something interesting or do art etc.

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Reugny · 20/04/2023 17:52

ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 17:34

Lining up a visit soon. Website is full on religious though.

But so is the Anglican school the other side of me, and I met a parent of a child there, and he said it wasn't religious day to day.

Show quote history

Many Anglican schools now don't select on religious observance but use the normal London and Surrey selection criteria, as they have found they got too many parents who were only religious so their children could get and stay in the school.

So there are Anglican schools who have lots of Muslim pupils.

savoycabbage · 20/04/2023 18:06

Does it say on their website what percentage of teaching time is for religious education?

I worked in a Catholic primary school and we had to do RE every day, so you constantly had to plan it into art, music etc to fit it in.

Teaandsympathy · 20/04/2023 18:07

My 3 dc go to a Roman Catholic primary. We are atheists. About half the children that go to the school are catholic. The HC isn’t compulsory but they do expect if you go to participate in prayers and church during school time (should be once a month but often less for one reason or another since Covid). we have lots of conversations about how we don’t believe but we have to be respectful of what others think. I haven’t found it to be an issue. In fact I’ve found the school really great. They’re kind, tolerant, approachable, - lots of things my eldest’s DC’s first non denominational school was not. Dc won’t be going to the RC secondary though.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:21

Reugny · 20/04/2023 17:52

Many Anglican schools now don't select on religious observance but use the normal London and Surrey selection criteria, as they have found they got too many parents who were only religious so their children could get and stay in the school.

So there are Anglican schools who have lots of Muslim pupils.

Show quote history

This one says on their website that it does, and requires a letter from the vicar to say we go to church at least monthly. They will take us of there's space though. Which there currently isn't.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:22

Teaandsympathy · 20/04/2023 18:07

My 3 dc go to a Roman Catholic primary. We are atheists. About half the children that go to the school are catholic. The HC isn’t compulsory but they do expect if you go to participate in prayers and church during school time (should be once a month but often less for one reason or another since Covid). we have lots of conversations about how we don’t believe but we have to be respectful of what others think. I haven’t found it to be an issue. In fact I’ve found the school really great. They’re kind, tolerant, approachable, - lots of things my eldest’s DC’s first non denominational school was not. Dc won’t be going to the RC secondary though.

Thank you. That's the kind of thing I was hoping to hear, and that this one might be similar.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:24

savoycabbage · 20/04/2023 18:06

Does it say on their website what percentage of teaching time is for religious education?

I worked in a Catholic primary school and we had to do RE every day, so you constantly had to plan it into art, music etc to fit it in.

Not that I have managed to find so far, but I will look.
The waste of time that I find religion to be, when she could be studying other subjects is one of the things that bothers me. I am happy for her to learn about all faiths and none, but not doing mass and prayers and long lectures about the one and only God.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:25

TotallyScouting · 20/04/2023 16:50

We did this for our children after relocating from a Middle Eastern country renowned for it’s hardline Muslim views. Our kids are unaffected by it, possibly because we tempered it with counter views at home, but a lot of learning time is ‘wasted’ on long unnecessary masses, etc IMO. Ultimately it was a lovely, inclusive school and the kids thrived, but ethically it was a bit of compromise for us. It has made our children dislike religion even more now, unsurprisingly!

That was my own personal experience as a child at very religious schools too.

Thanks for your input.

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Coffeeandbourbons · 20/04/2023 18:27

I went to Catholic school and DD will start at Catholic school in September. Daily prayers, weekly mass. Less fire and brimstone than when I was at school but it’s more hardcore than CofE. Catholic children do things like first holy communion together and I remember the non religious children being a bit ‘fringe’ - the church community and parents knowing each other influenced the kids friendships.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:30

Laurdo · 20/04/2023 17:08

Not sure what they're like now but it was definitely very brainwashy when I was there in the 90s. Like others have said, constant prayers and RE was taught as if factually correct. Even the school trips were religion based, convents, holy locations.

There are also several sacraments that the children participate in including, communions, first confessions, confirmations; for which there is preparation work, practicing of songs, a lot of church visits. I think your child could end up feeling rather excluded.

I had an awful experience in P7 where we were made to secretly vote on what we would advise a 13 yo friend who had fallen pregnant to do. A couple of people voted for "have an abortion" and the teacher went mental and told whoever had voted that way that they were going to hell.

My dad was raised Catholic but is now an atheist. My mum has always been atheist. I was always encouraged to question things growing up which did get me into trouble a few times at school when I "dared to question the word of the lord" etc.

I get that the Catholic school is a load more convenient but I really don't think your child would have the best experience there.

I had a similar experience at my secondary Catholic school. I left feeling ver compromised on what felt ethical to me, Vs what they taught. Euthanasia, for example. Abortion wasn't a thing because of course, none of us would be having sex before marriage!

I hope it's less intense at primary re these ethical Vs religious questions.

I really think if we don't get a place in September at the closer non-religious school, the one ab hour's walk away is going to take MORE of a roll on little DD, and me, with the commute.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:33

Coffeeandbourbons · 20/04/2023 18:27

I went to Catholic school and DD will start at Catholic school in September. Daily prayers, weekly mass. Less fire and brimstone than when I was at school but it’s more hardcore than CofE. Catholic children do things like first holy communion together and I remember the non religious children being a bit ‘fringe’ - the church community and parents knowing each other influenced the kids friendships.

Totally fire and brimstone at my schools. I don't want that for DD. But hopefully they've calmed down since the eighties.

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Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:35

Lillith111 · 20/04/2023 16:53

I just find it shocking that religious schools are still a thing in 2023 and for some are the only option. Complete madness

Me too, Lillith!

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Gurraun · 20/04/2023 18:35

My son is currently in year 5 of a RC primary school, having moved from a C of E primary during lockdown. I’m fairly agnostic so it was a worry for me (as even the C of E was quite religious) - they assured me it wasn’t rammed down the kids’ throats but I knew from other parents that wasn’t entirely the case. However we went for it because everything else seemed great and it was a great move as he loves it and is thriving.

Anyway, there is quite a bit of RE taught although not just RC faith and they have a weekly mass. However, it doesn’t feel too intense and to be honest as someone up the thread said they’ve had to tone it all down because now probably only 50% of their intake are RC.

In conclusion, if the school is otherwise good and affords the opportunity to make lots of local friends and no school run, I’d think very carefully before discounting it.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:43

Gurraun · 20/04/2023 18:35

My son is currently in year 5 of a RC primary school, having moved from a C of E primary during lockdown. I’m fairly agnostic so it was a worry for me (as even the C of E was quite religious) - they assured me it wasn’t rammed down the kids’ throats but I knew from other parents that wasn’t entirely the case. However we went for it because everything else seemed great and it was a great move as he loves it and is thriving.

Anyway, there is quite a bit of RE taught although not just RC faith and they have a weekly mass. However, it doesn’t feel too intense and to be honest as someone up the thread said they’ve had to tone it all down because now probably only 50% of their intake are RC.

In conclusion, if the school is otherwise good and affords the opportunity to make lots of local friends and no school run, I’d think very carefully before discounting it.

Thank you. Definitely thinking about ever pro abd con, the commute is totally demoralising, DD will hate adding an hour to her get out of bed time.

I'm glad you are happy with your choice for your son.

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Zwicky · 20/04/2023 18:46

Huge variation in how Catholic a catholic school is. Some you have to be baptised before your are a year old and sign a register at weekly mass to even stand a chance of a place - this competitiveness is very often due to wanting to continue to an outstanding Catholic secondary so most dc will do HC and go to mass and by default the school becomes more religious. Some (most?) schools have a Catholic majority, but are not wholly Catholic in their pupil and staff demographic. Some will have very few Catholics at all. If the church they are linked to isn’t very active then the school will tend to have less religion in in generally, especially if they don’t have a convent nearby. Our local convent changed a couple of years ago from Franciscans to Poor Clare’s. Huge difference in involvement in the school. Basically visit and see what you think.

Original poster
ScaredHeart · 20/04/2023 18:48

Thank you for all responses so far. I think I've replied to all, sorry if I've missed anything.

I'm definitely going to check the school out and ask lots of questions.

DD is swayed by the colour of the gingham summer dress 😂. Which amazingly is the same colour as my primary school uniform.

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