Move to independent school at year 3 - am I doing the right thing?

[munchymoo]

DS is at an outstanding state primary, year 2, he's settled and doing well. DH and I were both entirely state educated and have done well with our respective careers. We live in north London so are considering Highgate, UCS, Habs, City amongst others.

We had always planned to switch to private for secondary as the local state secondaries are not great, but now we've decided to move DS next year into Year 3 (so he'll be sitting the 7+ exam soon).

The reasons for this are twofold. Firstly we live in a very competitive area for private schools and it seems that statistically he is more likely to get a place at 7+ compared to 11+ (our first choice is Highgate and the stats are something like 300 applicants for 100 places at 7+ and 900 applicants for 100 places at 11+), my fear is if we keep him at state and then he doesn't pass the 11+, we don't really have an option other than to send him to the local state comp (moving house isn't really an option for us).

The other reason for switching now is that he is a bright boy, he picks things up quickly and his maths is at least 1 year ahead of the current work they're doing in class, especially since doing the 7+ prep work. He comes home every day with sheets of colouring and when I asked his teacher why that is he said it's because he finishes his work quickly and it's to keep him occupied whilst he helps some of the children who are struggling. He said he would try and get some extension work set up but we've not seen this yet. Whilst I completely appreciate that there are a range of abilities and it is really tough for the teacher to manage 30 children, I also want to do the best for my son and allow him to achieve his potential.

DH is 100% pro moving him and says why wouldn't we if we can afford it? I oscillate between thinking the same, and then thinking he's at an outstanding school, he's happy, we have local friends and a great sense of community and I don't want him to grow up in a bubble, I value the fact that he is currently mixing with a wide range of children of different backgrounds and I am concerned that sending him to private school will quash that.

There is no right answer, and I realise opinions will be divided. Please could I ask for any opinions or anyone else in the same boat? For those who went private, do you feel it was the right choice? Am I mad paying for private education when my son is at an OFSTED outstanding state primary? I realise this is a fortunate position to be in. I'm really struggling, please be kind!

Hi. I would move him to ensure he continues to enjoy school. If his current school isn’t stretching him, that could translate to boredom in future. Looking at it more generally: is his current school meeting his needs? If not, you should move him.

Yes, I would say you are doing the right thing. We are in (presumably) a very similar area and the 11+ for boys is insanely competitive. If you can get a place sooner, do it! It sounds as though your DS is more than ready.

Incidentally, Highgate’s 11+ stats are even tougher than you think. They have about 80 places for external candidates (so only about 40 for boys and 40 for girls) and told us at their open day that they expect at least 1,000 candidates to sit for them. They also have about 100 coming up from the Junior School.

You are making the right decision and 7+ is absolutely the time to do it.

Please note 7+ needs a lot of preparation and is heavy on the English side not just maths.

Comprehension and creative writing.

Avoiding bubble is easy just do extra curriculars within the local community, use mass transit etc. It's quite easy to have friends in independent and maintained education if you try.

We are in a very similar position and will be aiming to sit the 7+ to move to independent. I think you are making the right choice if you can afford it. There will be other opportunities to expose him to diversity if that is what you are concerned about.

Unfortunately there’s more like 70 places for admission into Year 3 at Highgate, and being coed only half that for each sex. DS will be appearing for the exam but coming from a state school where he barely gets extended I feel like he doesn’t stand a chance against the pre-prep children. We are looking at other non-7+ preps as back up but of course then they have to do the 11+ as well.

Sensible to move but you are late to the preparation if he's in year 2 now - you've only got about two months til the tests. If you can find a local tutor to assess him and give you an honest opinion that's worth doing. Or get some bond books and get cracking at home - worth a shot.

Don’t be intimidated by the application numbers. Parents are applying for more and more schools pushing up the numbers but everyone can get a place at an independent school if they want to attend. Your choice won’t ever be only an unacceptable comp even if your DS doesn’t go to Highgate.

The benefit of private primary vs a good state school in your situation will be is appropriate differentiation and challenge and probably the co-curricula provision from what you’ve said. You can replicate the best elements of this going to state still while doing academic extension outside of school and providing high quality sporting, music, foreign language, coding etc.

If it’s worth doing depends on your finances, if your son has the energy to do all of the extension and co-curricula work after school (rather than during school in a prep), if you and your DH have the time to facilitate this etc and the things you value about your current state school.

There isn’t a right or wrong choice as such. With supportive parents your DS will do well regardless.

My DS has been at Highgate since pre-prep. I’d strongly recommend it- the benefit of the JS is that you have smallish school (with all the benefits that brings re a feeling of community) within a larger school (with the benefits that brings re facilities and opportunities).
The new JS head is lovely and has been at the school for years.

One of the benefits of 7+ is that you get two bites at the cherry- if he gets a place now, you’re sorted until 18. If he doesn’t, he can continue at an outstanding primary and try again at 11. I also think it’s less stressful at 7 (assuming you don’t make it stressful) because there isn’t a looming hard deadline and so it’s easier to present it to DC as just exploring options.

Agree with PP that it would be good to have some help preparing for the tests in terms of exam technique, or to do some prep yourself. I’m not in favour of tutoring kids on the substance however and it doesn’t sound as if your son needs it.

You’re right that he won’t have such a diverse group of school friends in a private school. You can counter that a little with clubs out of school, especially those with lower fees such as cubs/scouts etc. I think parental input makes a big difference to children’s awareness of privilege- those kids I’ve encountered at Highgate who seem unaware of their privilege generally have parents in the same mould.

We went into private for y7 and if I had the time again (and had the funds) it would have been better to move for y4 which is when he started finding his excellent state primary rather boring and unmotivating. We weren't able to do this though - we spent yR-y6 saving up what we could because that savings pot is now how we can afford the fees for y7-y13. If you can manage it now then yes go for it.

definitely the right choice but does he have time to prepare for the exams? DS went to UCS and we can’t praise it enough. It’s easier to get in at 7 than 11 and then they can just concentrate on school. GD is at Habs in year 6 and they are just getting on with the curriculum and she knows she is just going to move on up (they have confirmed this).

Thank you all for your comments and support. I think it’s the right decision as I felt a big YES when everyone’s posts were positive towards the change.

I guess what keeps bugging me is you hear all these stories of children at state school doing really well (I did!) and you think - a lot of these children will end up in the same universities (I’m not obsessing about Oxbridge) and with the right parental support won’t he do well regardless? Is it really worth ALL THE MONEY???!

And an outstanding state school can be better than a private school in many cases?

You seem quite fixated on his current school being ‘outstanding’ but that’s just an official category assigned by ofsted on one visit. It doesn’t mean that it’s an outstanding school for your child, or that moving from that school isn’t a very valid decision to make. It’s a rough guide as to the overall quality of the school at the time the inspection was done (often yonks ago….) but your lived experience of the school tells you an awful lot more! Being officially rated outstanding doesn’t mean anything if they’re not able to provide appropriate work to stretch your son.

IMO most attainment happens at home no matter the school. The principal difference I feel is that a higher percentage of the cohort are focused on achieving the best grades in the independent sector.

There's a difference joining a senior school where 5% get max grading (typical outstanding school in London) for GCSE vs 99%. Being in that 5% is straight forward if the environment is right at home.

Then outside that you generally get wider support options. For example a child wouldn't be "bored" being ahead especially after around Y3 in the independent sector but you hear this more in the maintained sector.

I feel you're paying to be around more students focused on learning rather than better better grades.

The average private school get better grades (higher value add) than the average state school even taking cohort ability into account. Though obviously not all private schools are good and there are state schools with huge academic value add too.

With that said, the vast majority of university students at all universities including Oxbridge are state educated. Private school is a luxury not a necessity. It’s better with a host of advantages but not at all essential for success, particularly if you have supportive educated parents.

Its like buying a Porsche rather than a Ford. I say this as someone paying for private primary at a top school so it’s not a statement against private schooling! It is better but if it’s worth the money isn’t something anyone can objectively say.

Agree with @LondonGirl83

My DC has been in a London private school since Pre-Prep at 4+ and compared to friends at 'outstanding prep' much of the learning is the same, we pay extra for extra's.

Smaller classes, things like dedicated music teacher, music studio and lots of instruments, we seem to have more feedback than state friends and bigger playing fields, more clubs, and more sports. DC is in an all through school and vast majority go onto Russell grp Uni, it’s not even a top 5 London Indie school but its results are leaps ahead of the numbers for leavers of great state schools in London.

It’s silly to even compare the Junior dept's of schools like City and UCS with the even the best state primary school in London, as other poster said of course it’s better in the sense of resources and life chances (Good Uni, top professions, etc) compared to outstanding state schools primary and secondary, and of course he can make it without private school, stats wise its less likely.
Only you can answer if it’s worth giving him the 'leg up' which if any private school parent is honest, is the reason we pay thousands of pounds each year.

I think from a bubble perspective, my school has everything from kids whose family holiday in a private jet to their second home abroad to the kid whose only been in the UK, a refugee from a war torn country on a full bursary, living in social housing and everything in-between, a big difference between state friends is they have a tiny bubble local to their primary, whereas my DC has friends all over , albeit with a privilege that we find either through an advantageous financial position compared to most, or winning a hard-won bursary place.

highgate junior a 'smallish school' ?!

it's massive! there are 125 kids in each year.

Academically I’d say for the average student at my academically selective private school the teaching is at least 1 year ahead of the national curriculum in the early years and for the very able goes beyond this extending the topics further and accelerating as appropriate within math and English.

More tuan just the appropriate level of challenge though is the need for less repetition as bright kids get it quicker than average which makes it less tedious for clever kids. It also means more of the school day can be devoted to music, sport, languages etc.

I think I could replicate everything besides the breadth of sport for about a quarter of the price (tutors, extracurricular activities etc) but it would be a lot more running around and more tiring as it would be in addition to rather than part of the school day. That’s the luxury element of private school plus the peer group being motivating for some DC academically.

With that said, every private school parent I know still pays for extracurricular activities on top for the things their children are really interested in. It’s an absolute fortune.

Small in relation to the school as a whole and the facilities etc that it has.

That’s a really good point about being able to spend more of the time doing extra-curricular activities like music, drama etc because the academic stuff is done more quickly owing to the selective nature of the school and the higher academics of the students.

Maybe I’m uncovering some socialist parts of myself that are struggling with the elite nature of it all - having been to state school myself - yet we work very hard, our money has not landed in our laps by any means.

In an ideal world, there wouldn't be an independent sector and all kids with the early years foundations for the highest levels of attainment would be distributed in properly funded, state maintained and non selective schools.

Unfortunately it isn't like that in this country and for the best for your DC who is doing well and enjoying learning it is probably best to capitalise on that with a good school environment.

DS (who has friends in both and is aware of the privillege) asks why he's in this sector and I say the same to him.

Maybe state schools will get proper per student funding in the future but that will be the generation after your DC based on current climate.

I think there's room for an independent sector even in a totally fair and well-funded system. That gives parents the ability to choose a school that doesn't use the national curriculum and does things differently. But if state schools were properly funded and the same quality and depth of education was readily available at both state and private schools, there would be no privilege being bought.

I had a wobble when my DS was in Year 2 and wondered if I should be sending him to a selective school for Year 3 as he was so able. On the whole, I'm glad I didn't. Yes, he and DD both had times they were bored with repetition. Yes, at times I felt the school's main aim of moving the masses up to the next level meant those working at the top were given 'challenges' but it didn't really matter to the school how much progress they made, as they were already doing so well.

However, the school had a lot of extracurriculars on offer from Year 3, after and during school. My 2 both left Year 6 grade 6 on one instrument and grade 4 on a second; all lessons were during school. They both played in the orchestra and in a sports team with after-school fixtures and no running around from me. They got taken to maths competitions against state and private sector. They both got into the London super-selective grammars with just me and past papers, no tutor, and they outperformed their peers who had attended the private primaries - both in the entrance tests and once there. I do also think they are more grounded than most of their peers, although this is clearly subjective.

Your experience/school could be different - I'm not giving advice, more just sharing my experience for balance. I would still consider private school for our youngest child under different circumstances, but I am glad we stuck with state for my older 2.

I guess what keeps bugging me is you hear all these stories of children at state school doing really well (I did!) and you think - a lot of these children will end up in the same universities (I’m not obsessing about Oxbridge) and with the right parental support won’t he do well regardless? Is it really worth ALL THE MONEY???! I don't think so ...

And an outstanding state school can be better than a private school in many cases? Oh yes it can be, in many cases!

You can move him but for City, the earliest admissions are for 10+. This might be true of some of the other schools too.

City have a new mixed juniors for 7+ entry that feed direct to CLS in Y6.