Move to independent school at year 3 - am I doing the right thing?

[munchymoo]

DS is at an outstanding state primary, year 2, he's settled and doing well. DH and I were both entirely state educated and have done well with our respective careers. We live in north London so are considering Highgate, UCS, Habs, City amongst others.

We had always planned to switch to private for secondary as the local state secondaries are not great, but now we've decided to move DS next year into Year 3 (so he'll be sitting the 7+ exam soon).

The reasons for this are twofold. Firstly we live in a very competitive area for private schools and it seems that statistically he is more likely to get a place at 7+ compared to 11+ (our first choice is Highgate and the stats are something like 300 applicants for 100 places at 7+ and 900 applicants for 100 places at 11+), my fear is if we keep him at state and then he doesn't pass the 11+, we don't really have an option other than to send him to the local state comp (moving house isn't really an option for us).

The other reason for switching now is that he is a bright boy, he picks things up quickly and his maths is at least 1 year ahead of the current work they're doing in class, especially since doing the 7+ prep work. He comes home every day with sheets of colouring and when I asked his teacher why that is he said it's because he finishes his work quickly and it's to keep him occupied whilst he helps some of the children who are struggling. He said he would try and get some extension work set up but we've not seen this yet. Whilst I completely appreciate that there are a range of abilities and it is really tough for the teacher to manage 30 children, I also want to do the best for my son and allow him to achieve his potential.

DH is 100% pro moving him and says why wouldn't we if we can afford it? I oscillate between thinking the same, and then thinking he's at an outstanding school, he's happy, we have local friends and a great sense of community and I don't want him to grow up in a bubble, I value the fact that he is currently mixing with a wide range of children of different backgrounds and I am concerned that sending him to private school will quash that.

There is no right answer, and I realise opinions will be divided. Please could I ask for any opinions or anyone else in the same boat? For those who went private, do you feel it was the right choice? Am I mad paying for private education when my son is at an OFSTED outstanding state primary? I realise this is a fortunate position to be in. I'm really struggling, please be kind!

Hi munchymoo - it is a bit hard, I think the reality is that you try to keep in touch with old friends but as you're trying to get to know new friends, there is only so much time. Also I find as the school day is now longer, it makes weekday meet ups much harder. However we have tried to keep in touch with DD's closest 2/3 friends over the first half term...as we approached the end of the half term, she has definitely changed a bit and making some good Friendships at the new school. Having said this, I do still think that changes like this take time to adjust and I'm sure he will be absolutely fine in no time!

Similar boat here once, same area, same schools ... my DS spent Y6 helping the SN children. Far from genius but he got all the selectives and we chose a selective state school. Never a second's regret. The paupered private friends sent their DC to the same good unis as mine. Morally I object to private schools (but they are not illegal, yet so do carry on) ... but it's not a good look for them coming down the tracks.

@Moominmammacat I would happily keep DS at current state primary then have him go to an excellent grammar school at 11+ but the competition for places at the few grammar schools near us is insane (think 1200 applicants for 70 places) - I can’t risk it as if he doesn’t get in which is a very real possibility with those stats then we are left with no options but the local state comp which is dire. If it was an easier road in at 11+ I wouldn’t hesitate to keep him where he is (although DH not so much)

I wouldn’t privately educate my children unde any circumstances but if you likely will at some point, can afford it, and with what you say about entry being more difficult later on, it makes sense.

I would move him if you think it would be better now. But if its just 11+ worry, then I wouldn’t. The statistics you quote entirely ignore that there are DC getting 4, 5, 6 or even more offers each. The competition isn’t as fierce as its made out to be. There’s a thread on secondary education (SW London 11+ 2022-23 thread) on which a couple of posters linked to prep school websites, which show how many offers each child got, and it was so many! Lots of very sought after schools had most of their offers (from those prep schools) rejected.

I’m speaking as someone who has had two DC go to a sought-after independent school (plus offers from a super selective grammar) from a state primary. There’s a lot of hype about the level they need to be at, and the tutoring arms race etc. It was entirely possible, and possibly even less stressful, doing it that way than from a prep.

Why not? Genuine qs.

I wouldn’t either Michael. Dd1 just got all 8 s and 9s in gcse and is on the Oxbridge pathway plays a team sport and has nice friends and is most importantly happy so I’m comfortable with our choice.

I was state educated...got top grades and have a great career. However, friends keep encouraging me to send DC to private school...their argument is that the "odds are stacked against kids in state school"...."why not make the path to success easier"?....Some days I feel they have a point 😞

@BlackthornBerry this is what my DH says! And it’s hard to argue with. But then I hear lots of people saying how well their kids did through state school and I wonder if I’m mad spending all this money, and part of me feels wrong about it too.

I should add, this is not in any way meant to criticise those who are doing private school, it seems as though I may be joining you but I feel like every child should have access to the same education

I don't think the odds are stacked against state school kids. I think the odds are stacked against children that don't have educated parents with the socio-economic means and knowledge to fully support their development.

There is a benefit to private school but its not that dramatic.

It’s nuanced decision. Our state option is very good (not perfect by any means but has best results in county and a high “value added” score). It’s single sex mixed ability and there are all sorts there but is supported by the middle class solicitor/doctor/ business owner demographic. Results just as good as the girls private and nice new buildings. So for us frankly it would be mad to go private and a waste of money. If the state option were different or my dds were not thriving with lovely pals I would make a different choice.

Yes they do, because they all sit the same GCSE's/A-levels in the end and there is only so much that they need to do to get top grades on those....lots of state school kids get top grades.

Being a year or two ahead at age 7 is not exactly a prerequisite to a successful future, especially since it seems from reading here that most of these kids are tutored, pushed and prepped to pass the 7+. Natural talent and interest in learning will always shine through in the end.

I don’t really approve of buying privilege in that way and also I’m not sure it would suit my kids. One is doing amazing and got straight As in his first set of exams (as we always suspected he would ) and the other has additional support needs and it’s hard enough to get them met when there’s a legal duty on the part of the local authority to do so, never mind when there isn’t as there wouldn’t be if he was private and we were responsible for paying the fees

As someone who has worked in University teaching for years, 'Natural talent and interest in learning will always shine through' is a myth.

It depends hugely on your family background and your home surroundings and expectations, the class of your parents, your skin colour, also the school you attend.

Private and state don't do the 'same GCSE's/A-Levels, many even outstanding state senior schools don't offer the breadth of A levels private schools do (or indeed offer alternative to A Levels), this can be crucial in the students applying to Uni.

Middle class kids with university educated and or wealthy parents, tend do well, regardless of their school.

If OP can even consider paying around a quarter of a million pounds on fees from 7 to 18, and still have options to help DC for University and post-graduation help should they for example choose to do postgrad study and enter careers with a long, low paid apprenticeship like becoming a Barrister for example, the life chances of their son is bright regardless if they stay state or go private. Under these conditions it is only true to say 'Natural talent and interest in learning will always shine through' because it has financial backing to overcome.

"Middle class kids with university educated and or wealthy parents, tend do well, regardless of their school."

And of these I'm guessing that the more naturally talented and interested will do the best regardless of whether or not they were tutored and trained to pass the 7+, and regardless of whether they went to a highly selective private school or a state school.

100% agree.

Charm and likeability are what make people successful. Cruel but true. Private school irrelevant.

That's good to know as we are currently deciding what to do with our 6 year old. She's at an outstanding infant school where she's doing well (though I wouldn't say she's at the very top of the cohort). I'm not sure I'm ready to do tutoring for the 7+ with her and I'm very aware of putting too much pressure on young children. The private school school day starts with a school bus at 7:15 and she wouldn't get home until 5 and to me that is a long day for a just turned 7 year old. Think we'll hold off, support her learning and then see where she's at in a couple of years.

Anecdotally those that have done the best in our friendship group were the ones that went to the worst schools!

My primary school was properly shit - tiny village school with elderly teachers coasting to retirement. Yet lots of the “graduates” went to Oxbridge?!

Yes - I totally agree that this is a huge factor in success! 💯

I wouldn't feel wrong about it, we all try do what we think is best for our kids....

One thing independent schools are good at is removing unwanted pupils. This sounds harsh (it obviously is), but it results in better behaviour of the students who are there.

When moving from state to private at round about the age of your DC, the thing my DCs commented on immediately was the better behaviour and calmer atmosphere.

Teachers who are not wrestling with crowd control are able to teach. Add in the smaller classes and the greater emphasis on arts and sport, it has been a winner for us.

Of course state m-educated kids do well, get to Oxbridge etc. But a good school does a lot more than teach academic subjects.

Just do your costing to make sure you can afford the fees in years to come. Fees for older children are higher.

This is a really good point and there's a good amount of research that supports this. I suppose that if we directly compared like for like (state educated vs privately educated children; both with educated supportive parents) we would perhaps get a truer reflection of whether private education is really value for money.