Catholic or Church of England Primary School?

[Honeywaffles1]

I don't practise either religion, but these are pretty much my only options within a two-mile radius.

There are many ”outstanding” Catholic schools, but I've heard that the Church of England takes a more lax approach to religion than the RC church, where converting to their religion is the top priority.

Note: I don't need to be told to find a school that is not religious because I don't want to have to take my son on two buses in the morning and two in the afternoon.

I have experience of both (as a parent and professionally). Catholic Primary Schools in our area (may vary by diocese) are required to allocate something like 20% of the school day to RE. This can include assemblies and lessons that cross over with other areas of the curriculum (eg. writing etc). The RE lessons do include some discussions about other faiths but are very heavily focussed on Catholicism. Children at a catholic primary school will be expected to do the sign of the cross (even if not Catholic) and learn Catholic prayers/take part in religious services in school. There are certain roles in Catholic schools that can only be taken by practising Catholics (eg Headteacher, Deputy Head, most Governors) so the school leadership is likely to be inherently quite religious. Church of England schools also have a requirement to teach about Christianity and to have collective worship etc but it's much more low key. As far as I know, there is no requirement for school leaders to be religious so it tends not to be as far up on their personal educational agenda.

The Catholic one will be more religious and the child can take part in holy sacraments such as communion, confession and confirmation. Optional but most children will take part in these. C of E you don’t need too.

When I went to high school, the local high school for our catchment area was CofE. This was 30 years ago, but it was nothing like the local Catholic High School. Which was all fire and brimstone. We only had to do a religious assembly once a week.

@lovelypidgeon Thank you for sharing. Because of what you said, I now want to learn more about how the Church of England does things.

I do want my son to interact with people from all backgrounds and religions.

I just don't like the thought of him being told, "This is the right religion, you must do this and that," and then being left out while everyone else is getting ready for confirmation.

In the end, I want him to respect the schools religion but also know everyone's beliefs and way of living is just as valid.

Do the RC schools actually try to convert the children? Certainly the ones my friends children attend do not. We are viewing secondaries at the moment and both the Cathlic schools we've visited were extremely clear that whilst they have a Catholic focus, and are steered by Catholic traditions and values, that the school is a welcoming place for all students regardless of any faiths /lack of faith and their views are respected.

I would try and speak to parents at both be schools. I don’t think you can generalise Catholic v CofE generally. I’ve known schools of both flavours that have plenty of praying and God quite Centered. So for example we should look after the planet because God created it for us. But also I’ve seen both some that have a multicultural intake with many faiths that are largely only religious in name.

I think though if you pick a religious school It is fine to tell your kids that they must be respectful of worship elements even though it isn’t what you believe at home. Don’t be that parent making comments about “sky pixies” and what a load of hooey organised religion is at the school gate.

No Catholic schools do not try to convert anyone!! Utter nonsense! Even when I attended one 40 years ago they weren’t doing that!

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz My friend is a governor, and the governors' chair is a bishop who stressed that "the school is the church now" and who was obviously irritated that so many people attend funerals but neglect to baptise their children while still wanting to benefit from a Catholic education.

In essence, they are raising up the next generation of churchgoers.

Therefore, it was stated that the best way to spread their religion, draw people into churches, and encourage donations to keep them operating was through schools. I hope I said that correctly.

My daughter has just started at a Cof E infants. They have daily worship either in their class or a whole school “praise party”. She comes home with lots of songs about God and taught me how to pray the other day 😂 (Close your eyes and put your hands like this mummy). I imagine we will have a lot of conversations about belief over the next 3 years but am happy to have a balanced conversation about it all and the school felt right for us.

I would think about next steps. There’s a very well regarded Catholic primary near me which our (non catholic) kids would probably get into on past years. However, most kids from that school go to the catholic secondary in our town which is super competitive and you can’t really get in without being a practicing catholic. So I’m discounting the primary because I think it would be pretty shit for our kids to be separated from their friends at the end of year 6 just because they couldn’t get into the same secondary because of religion.

Since they had to be baptised to be high enough up the admission criteria to get in, DD’s RC primary does not seem to be trying to convert children who are already Catholic.

Don’t be that parent making comments about “sky pixies” and what a load of hooey organised religion is at the school gate.

I most definitely won't be mocking anyone's beliefs, but I will affirm that people from all over the world hold a variety of beliefs, and that none of them are incorrect. We should respect all religions.

My RC secondary was much more diverse in terms of race/ethnicity/religion than the non-religious schools in the same area.

i went to both kinds.
you need to research these individual schools, but generally and on my own experience, definitely go for the church of england one.

Like you we are non religious and wanted DS to attend a school with a mix of people but I looked at the Catholic primary as it is our nearest school. It was very religious with rosary beads outside each classroom, pictures of the Pope, the Queen and the Prime Minister in the hall etc. They were clear that although the linked church is some distance away (I have lived here for nearly 20 years and don't know where it is) the pupils are heavily involved with it and most pupils go on to the nearest Catholic high school, which is 10 miles away in a village despite the fact that we are in a city. Definitely not for us despite great results, small school, being Ofsted Outstanding.

Having said that my niece and nephew attended a Catholic primary not far away where it was next door to the linked church and although they did do first communion etc there never seemed to be a lot else religious about it so very different to the one I looked at.

What I am trying to say is that you need to see it to know how religious it is!

It's wonderful to hear all of these viewpoints. I understand that every school is completely unique; you can't base decisions on what's written down because I've only visited one so far, and it's just "a feeling" you get. And you’ll know from that whether it’s right for your child.

I think this is a great reply. Whichever school you decide on (visit both during the school day to see them in action) it's just as important to have open discussions at home about other religions. Perhaps at times like Diwali or Ramadan you can educate DC at home about other beliefs (loads of resources online) so they are getting a balance about religion beyond school.

You may find it helpful to look at the admissions policy for each school as that often indicates their approach. School which use categories such as age of baptism (before six months) and those requiring weekly attendance at Named churches for a number of years and a certificate from the Priest are likely to take a different approach than those that don’t prioritise on faith. Also, if they are free schools they can only prioritise up to 50% of their intake on faith grounds. The prioritisation for admissions only applies if there are more applicants than places, this can be important when there has been a fall in overall pupil numbers or a change in the faith of people living in the area, so your child could get a place at a school which in the past was known to be very difficult to get into.

Regardless, you have the right to withdraw your child from collective worship or RE, even if they attend a faith school.

I am a teacher in a Catholic primary school, my children all went to the same school, we are COfE. Yes, we have prayer and liturgy or class reflection each day. RE is a core subject, where we teach about Christianity and other faiths.

At no point, would anyone try to convert the children into a different faith.

In my (semi-rural) area pretty much every scho is CofE simply because historically the Church set up schools to educate young children before the State did. They are simply the local school and accept anyone of any faith or no faith.

Regardless, you have the right to withdraw your child from collective worship or RE, even if they attend a faith school.

Would it be odd or "othering" to remove your child from such lessons? I doubt it, but it depends on the subjects they'll be discussing.

I've heard of people going through all the hassles and getting baptised in order to enrol their kids in these religious schools. When the school is aware of your baptism and your attendance at mass, it seems especially offensive to do such a thing and then withdraw from religious classes.

I believe that the local priest holds mass at the school on a regular basis.

While I believe it is acceptable to participate in religious activities like attending mass, I doubt many kids would enjoy sitting through an hour of droning sermons from a priest.

Are all the teachers this devout? Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't know many Christians who still regularly attend church services.

On the school website, it is stated that prayers are said at the beginning and end of each day, before meals, and before and after all periods of recess at a RC, one of the best schools in the area

That is a lot more than the five daily prayers required by Islam 😄

@Passtheduchyonthelefthandside How do you prsy? Do you talk about Jesus Christ and Mary, or just "god" as the sole creator?

Do you memorise prayers like the Hail Mary?

We have morning, lunch and hometime prayers. The children learn how to bless themselves. They learn the Our father and Hail Mary. Some teachers are very devout (will never give up RE for cover) others, never walk into a church, outside of school. I'm c of e, so I've had to learn some aspects. When I do our collective worship, we use a website, ten ten, it's very child friendly, yes it talks about Mary, Jesus and God, but I will often put it into a context that is relevant to the children.

I did teaching practice in both types of school, having been to cofe myself I may be more immune to it but the Catholic one certainly felt heavier on the god content.

The sacraments are optional only for those children who have been baptised Catholic. Non-Catholic children will NOT be invited to receive these sacraments (though they are always very welcome to attend the Confirmation and Communion ceremonies to support their classmates and perhaps receive a blessing themselves). Baptised children can opt in or out.

There is extra preparation time for these sacraments (Confession and Communion at around age 8 and Confirmation at around age 12). They may be expected to sit quietly at the back of the classroom during this preparation time, some schools will have an area where the children can sit out (perhaps near the school receptionist) or they may do this preparation at the start or end of the school day so parent can drop late or collect early.

My children attended a Catholic school and I can confirm that none of their non-Catholic classmates converted to Catholicism thus far (older teenagers now). And my DC would have learned about other faiths during school, and from their non-Catholic classmates.

If you choose a faith school you must do so accepting the ethos of the school, your child will be as respected as any other student in the school, often the pay-off is a better education.

But, schools vary and are so different from each other in many respects. A change in Principal can drive many changes.