Catholic or Church of England Primary School?

[Honeywaffles1]

I don't practise either religion, but these are pretty much my only options within a two-mile radius.

There are many ”outstanding” Catholic schools, but I've heard that the Church of England takes a more lax approach to religion than the RC church, where converting to their religion is the top priority.

Note: I don't need to be told to find a school that is not religious because I don't want to have to take my son on two buses in the morning and two in the afternoon.

OP, I doubt many kids would enjoy sitting through an hour of droning sermons from a priest."

I don't know where you got that from?

The sermon/talk lasts 10 minutes tops at our church.

Funny how virtually every primary school is religious and they have the kids saying prayers and singing hymns. Then they go to secondary school and most of them are non religious?

Is your friend complaining on MN about not being able to do what interests her as a governor, by any chance?

The RC Church started schools long before the CofE was a glint in Henry VIII's eye.

Without a doubt I'd go for the Cof E school. I went to one. It is much less focussed on religion and more relaxed about it.

We get threads like this popping up on a regular basis.

The usual complaint is that the parent doesn't want their child to have a religious upbringing but moaning because they can't access a secular school (for whatever reason).
Then it's only a matter of time before others join the thread to moan about having a 'State Religion' and not wanting their kids indoctrinated about 'Sky Fairies'. It gets boring.😴
OP here's a newsflash for you – these Faith Schools haven't just sprung up like mushrooms overnight. You knew they were there and yet chose to live in the area.

So I don't get why this is a problem now?
It seems you are entitled enough want everyone else to accommodate your values but don't want to accommodate those of these schools.
It seems you didn't plan your child's education thoroughly enough and want everyone else to fit in with you.
It ain't going to happen.
So either move, catch the bus, or suck it up.

@Queenofalltheskyfairies
What an unpleasant post.

I lived in my house for 7 years before we had DC. I hadn’t looked at schools. We lived there for work commute and DHs business . We just assumed the local schools would be ok.

I worked in education. I did know RC snd CofE schools. I knew our RC schools didn’t take that many liocal DC but took RC children from all over. So being forced into wasn’t what happened. Times change. CofE has become far more preachy too! Used to just be the vicar helping out with the Christian part of the RE syllabus and hosting the carol service. Even the VA schools didn’t do much more. Now even some CofE schools have prayers before lessons all day! Theres no
escape!

There is no knowing what changes will happen to a fairly ordinary school. Moving isn’t possible and I resent parents being told you suck it up when there are no other options. A school of a strong religious character isn’t what some of us want. Great if you do. Most (all) of these schools are state funded. They are for everyone. Except they are not in the full sense. Taking religion out of school altogether would be best. However powerful churches won’t do that.

@TizerorFizz What an unpleasant post.

No. Just common sense.

I hadn’t looked at schools. We just assumed the local schools would be ok.

So you didn't consider your kid's education prior to having them? I find that surprising for someone who works in education.

I resent parents being told you suck it up when there are no other options.

There are other options. Move, bus, car-share.

My next-door-neighbours at the last property we lived at moved 1 mile up the road so their kids didn't have to rub shoulders with the kids from the council estate that went to the local school.
I'm not going to get into an argument about whether they were right or wrong, but they saw a problem and did something about it.

They didn't whinge and expect to have everything their own way.

Taking religion out of school altogether would be best. However powerful churches won’t do that.

^^ here we go, just the type of post I was referring to. 😴

Why don't you go and peddle your secular agenda somewhere else?

I've worked in a Catholic prayer for many years. I am Catholic, but most of my colleagues are not. It is Catholic in spirit and we do things like have a mass a few times a year, visits from clergy, learn about the Saints, but we never in any way try to convert or make any of the non Catholic children in the school feel any less a part of the community.

Sacramental prep for things like First Holy Communion is done completely outside the school, at local churches, and many children do not take part in it at all.

I have taught in both. The Catholic one was way more religious. We had to teach RE three times per week (in an already-crowded curriculum) and it was entirely Catholic-focused. I taught Year 3 and the First Holy Communion was taken very seriously - we regularly went down to the church for practices.

In a CofE school it is much more relaxed. Emphasis on Christian values, eg forgiveness, community but not all-encompassing. RE is Christian-focused but taught alongside other faiths. There is a message of "Christians believe" rather than "We believe". Pupils are "invited to join" prayer rather than told they must pray. I don't find it that different to non C of E schools that I've taught in.

I should add, my Catholic school experience was 10+ years ago so may be different now, but we definitely went for First Hoky Communion practice at the church during school time.

A lot depends on the individual school. My kids go to a Catholic primary as although I am not Catholic, my DH is. There is definitely quite a lot of emphasis on religion, however the school definitely teaches about other religions and is definitely more liberal in outlook than perhaps other schools. We have told our DD that faith is a personal thing, that some people believe in God and others don’t and she has to make her own mind up. She has already had some heated discussions with some of her school friends who think there is only one answer, but I think it is healthy to question everything in life.

We also looked at a Catholic secondary for our DS. It was a « no way ». Very different kettle of fish!

Plus our DS decided he was agnostic, verging on atheist by the time he was at end of primary anyway!

@Queenofalltheskyfairies
So your nasty attitude continues. Shame people don’t understand that lack of choice is an issue for some. When we moved I knew the school in question was very light touch CofE . So fine at the time but it changed. It’s now causing issues. But, like many people, thinking about schools 10 years down the line in an expensive housing area isn’t what most people think they need to worry about. In my case DDs didn’t go there for 13 years after we moved into our house.

We could afford private and did that. DDs went to a Methodist senior school and it was lovely. DD2 moved to a prep and that was great too. Most people accept light touch religion and following the agreed syllabus. As we had in our infant school - perfect. What people cannot do is clog the roads with cars, search out alternative schools (which are all full) and move. We don’t have a bus service. Transport was available to nearest schools only.

@TizerorFizz So your nasty attitude continues so don't read my posts then.

Some of us are fed up with stupid, entitled people.

When we lived in the country people moved there and complained because the bus service was naff, the church bells woke them up on a Sunday and there were no streetlights.
They were happy to have the peace and quiet, low Community Charge cheap housing and nice views though.

We don’t have a bus service. Then don't live in the country.

When we lived by the seaside people moved there and then complained it was too windy and seagulls pooped on their cars.

Now we have the OP who has no religious beliefs but moves(or has chosen to live) to an area too far way from secular schools, then moans about it.

There are always choices. It's just that some people don't like the choices they have.

What absolute rubbish that catholic will be prioritising converting to their religion 🙄

What ever school you choose there will be an expectation to follow their faith, children will attend RE classes and go to mass.

The level of religion will depend on the school, I know C of E schools that are far more religious and pushy than catholic schools. My niece went to a c of E primary school and did far more RE and went to church more than my DDs. An academy we looked at admitted 90% of pupils based on church attendance, letters from local parishes were needed when applying.

There are lots of non catholics at my DDs school, just like when I went to school, in fact when I was at school the majority of my class mates were Muslim.

@Queenofalltheskyfairies
You are a real piece of work!

One difference to be aware of is that RC schools are generally VA schools whereas CofE schools are a mix of VC (the majority) and VA. VA schools have more autonomy in terms of their RE syllabus, employment policies/staff appointments, and admissions. So in theory the religious character might be more prominent in an RC school. But it really does depend on the school.

The CofE expectation for its schools is that 10% of curriculum time should be committed to delivering RE (the national curriculum recommendation for all schools is at least 5%). I think RC schools' expectation is similar.

My personal experience (VC CofE primary, local village school) is that worship and Christian values are a big part of school life and community. RE is taught to the local authority syllabus but with minimum possible time on non-Christian religions. RE is learning "about" religions, so is/should be taught in terms of "some/most Christians believe that..." not "we believe that..." But the lines do get blurred when worship ("we believe...") covers the same themes and Bible passages as RE lessons that week. Children are expected to pray. There was a change of Head in DS's second year and "school values" are now "our Christian values" whether you are Chrustian or not.

For context, I'm an atheist. DS was interested in being a Christian for his first 2 terms at school. Then the vicar's over-graphic-for-4-year-olds Easter worship and RE, gave him screaming nightmares and turned him right against religion. (Ironically, it's me, the atheist parent, who has been the one fighting the good fight to undo that damage and help him feel more positive towards religion.)

CofE schools say they are there for all faiths and none. Again, just my experience but I've found DS's school really respectful and accommodating of families who practice a different religion, and totally in its comfort zone with the non-practising but put-"Christian"-on-forms people who are probably the majority of the school community, but not so respecting of non-religious worldviews. For example, since the change of Head I've been told how church schools are better at values than community schools because "people of faith have a deeper understanding of values, because their values come from God". The school's stated policy is to "nurture those of the faith, encourage those of other Faith's and challenge those who have no faith." Not sure which category you fall into, OP, but depending on the school it might colour your experience a bit.

My DD is at one now, it is after school and voluntary. That’s the norm now, it’s different from when I was at primary school 20+ years ago.

In my experience Catholic schools are more likely to have remained under local authority control and less likely to be an academy. All of the schools in my area are academies except for the Catholic schools so I really had no choice.

@TizerorFizz : "Most (all) of these schools are state funded. They are for everyone. Except they are not in the full sense. Taking religion out of school altogether would be best. However powerful churches won’t do that".

Completely agree with your statement.
Religious schools are funded by all taxpayers, not just church goers, so they should have fair admission rules for all local children.
If those schools want to give priority to church goers then the funding should come from the church only.

@Lily7050 and it's not just the admissions priority thing.... In our area the church schools are "just" the local village school, and only 1 or 2 children a year are admitted in the church going parents priority category so it's not a massive thing. But the church uses its schools as a PR shop window and for outreach to the community, and all our taxes fund that. I'm not sure that is really on in the modern world, just because of the history of the church having led the education effort in Victorian times (and all credit to them for that) before the state stepped up during the last century?

Though obviously that's less of an issue than local kids being bumped from attending their local school they can walk to, with their local friends, by children whose parents have a letter from the vicar that they've been enough times to the right church.