Catholic or Church of England Primary School?

[Honeywaffles1]

I don't practise either religion, but these are pretty much my only options within a two-mile radius.

There are many ”outstanding” Catholic schools, but I've heard that the Church of England takes a more lax approach to religion than the RC church, where converting to their religion is the top priority.

Note: I don't need to be told to find a school that is not religious because I don't want to have to take my son on two buses in the morning and two in the afternoon.

Catholic schools are faith schools but Church Of England schools are ‘schools of a religious character’ - so they can’t preach or expect your child to pray/worship etc. They will still have a significant emphasis on Christianity but like all schools they will have daily worship, and like all schools will teach RE as an academic subject.

@Honeywaffles1 i am very biased because I went to an RC school, I think there’s a tendency to believe whatever you had growing up was in some way optimal, but, yes I think I would recommend it.

The reason being I think sincerely taught religion is a very valuable thing to be exposed to, to learn, to truly understand. I say that as someone who became atheist very early in my RC education. A lot of people in this world have deep faith and I’ve noticed that friends who went of C of E or completely secular schools seem to find it hard to understand faith at all. It’s as though they think all the religious around the world are sort of faking it or are all slightly dim, not in a mean way - it’s just something they can’t access. Whereas, as I’ve gotten older I can see a mind capable of having faith or at least understanding can sometimes add to your ability to think logically and creatively, and can help you connect more with people from any faith background.
My point is I think it adds a dimension to learning, even in terms of critical thinking, it gives you a blue print to map other religious-like group behaviour as well, which I think in an otherwise secular upbringing protects from indoctrination because you know what that looks like.

There is also the fact that there will potentially teachers there who are particularly driven to be good at what they do because of their faith. They are trying to promote a belief and a way of life so they will likely try to model the virtues of it and potentially be more engaged/invested in the school and it’s pupils succeeding.

Having said all that, I think you’ll probably know yourself once you speak with enough people and get a feel for each school. The CoE might just be a better school for all sorts of reasons, maybe it’s even more “religious”, but I wouldn’t write off RC school just because your a non-believer for all the reasons mentioned above. I think if you’re in the UK RC schools do tend to be more religious than C oE schools.

In my experience, catholic schools are usually more “full on” with religion than c of e schools in general, though there are a full range of c of e schools from “practically in name only” through to “very strongly present and emphasised”. But catholic schools tend to have more stringent entry criteria (being catholic) whereas the c of e schools will usually have everyone else.

Also worth noting that many state schools are fairly religious also - some just as much as “c of e” schools. Ours went to a “normal state” infants and a “c of e” juniors, and the assembly contents were pretty similar, with both having regular visits from the “fun” branch of the local church. We are not religious, and I just explained that some people are Christians (like aunty X) some are Muslim (like friend down the road) and some don’t believe in any of the religions and you’re allowed to choose for yourselves, and you’re allowed to change your mind.

Agree. But they do broadly expect children to pray - they wouldn’t be in trouble if they didn’t, I guess, but there’s a lot of praying in assembly, and the “Christian values” we’re all over the walls and very much presented as “this is what we believe as Christians” - though they taught RE perfectly sensibly and plenty of Muslim kids went to the school too.

"I believe that the local priest holds mass at the school on a regular basis.

While I believe it is acceptable to participate in religious activities like attending mass, I doubt many kids would enjoy sitting through an hour of droning sermons from a priest."

This would NOT be typical. You should try attending Mass sometime. If there is no choir, the entire Mass is usually done and dusted in 30-35 minutes on a Sunday, much less on a weekday. Sermons account for 5-10 minutes of this, are mostly reflecting the message of the Gospel or one of the Readings of the Day. Or, if it a special occasion then it will be reflective of this. Most priests are elderly now, there is a lack of vocations amongst young men. Priests do not have time to be traipsing out to schools on a regular basis when they are busy visiting the elderly/sick and burying the dead. Indeed, our secondary school had it's ANNUAL School Mass last week which involved 900+ students trotting up the road to attend at the church. It was a lovely excursion for them and a welcome early finish to a school day.

"On the school website, it is stated that prayers are said at the beginning and end of each day, before meals, and before and after all periods of recess at a RC, one of the best schools in the area

That is a lot more than the five daily prayers required by Islam 😄"

Prayers during the school day will be very, very, very short, a minute or less at a time most likely. A Hail Mary takes seconds. I can't comment on Islam but you could look it up.

DD went to both, in all honesty there wasn't much difference in the 2 she went to.
The RC one had a church next door where they'd attend mass on holy days, the parish priest would also teach an RE lesson once a month where they'd discuss certain bible stories.
When it came to the Holy Communion then the preparation was done after school, less than 1/2 the class actually took the sacrament though but many of the none Catholic children still attended the service to watch & support their friends, then the school held a party to celebrate.
There was no "trying to convert" anyone at all.

The CofE one still held religious assemblies on holy days, said prayers at the start & end of the day & sang hymns etc.

I can't say DD really noticed much difference in terms of religion.

In future I'd definitely decide based on which school seemed like a better fit for DC and not which was the least religious.

Faced with a choice between a Catholic school which teaches religion and a non/religious school which teaches woke nonsense, I felt it was safer to go for the Catholic school. Religion is much less damaging than wokeness.

@Raddix

You sure about that? I remember in the 90s having to go to confession and genuinely not knowing what to say as I was a goody two shoes and barely put a foot wrong. In the end I would always have to lie to the priest about a supposed wrongdoing just so I could take part in confession. Afterwards I would feel even worse about myself because I had LIED in confession and was most certainly going to hell for that.

Yeah my kids don’t go to Catholic school. My nieces and nephews do and I don’t judge my siblings for that but I felt I had to reply to your comment about non religious schools teaching wokeness. Such rubbish.

My DC are at a Catholic school although we are C of E by background and don't attend church etc as a family. The school definitely doesn't try to convert them, and around 50% of the pupils are not Catholic, but a lot of the teaching assumes that pupils are Catholic (as a pp mentioned, posters say things like 'as Catholics we believe ...'. Some of the teachers are very religious and talk about Catholic beliefs as though they are fact, others are more balanced. When the Catholic pupils were preparing for their 1st Holy Communion there was a lot of fuss made about what a special time it was for them, a party for them (and only them) and of course they got to take communion in mass at school.

I've sat in on some of the masses in school and they are quite short and child-friendly (not like a long church service) but do include communion for those who can take it and a blessing for the others. My eldest felt she was missing out by not being involved in these things, my youngest was pleased he didn't have to do it.

As a pp mentioned, most English Catholic schools are classed as Faith Schools so they can focus on one faith more than other schools and can include faith as one of the entry criteria. Most C of E schools are schools with religious character so there's less religious content in school and in the C of E school I know well the entry criteria are the same as all the other local authority schools.

I'm a bit surprised at a Catholic school having pictures of the Queen.

Absolutely this. I went to a Catholic school. And there was no pressure at all to convert. Everyone was treated the same. I did convert as an adult though.

@Dalaidramailama to be fair, it does seem to depend on the school with the “wokeness” ethos. Granted there’s a bit of a wokeness panic atm, but it would seem in some schools with that ethos they are perfectly adept at making children feel guilty about racism and climate change beyond their true personal culpability. I say that as someone who thinks these two issues are very important, but I think they are not always taught to children in the most useful way.

It sounds like OP wouldn’t be sending them to confession or reinforcing the indoctrination at home either.

You say you think you should respect all religions and then say things like ‘I doubt many kids would enjoy sitting through an hour of droning sermons from a priest.’

So tbh it doesn’t really sound like you respect the Catholic faith and so therefore I don’t think it would be wise to send your kids to a Catholic school.

If you are excluded from certain provisions in school because you are not Baptised a Catholic, children see a need to conform. This can be implied pressure to become “one of us” or be excluded! Resisting the flow and ethos of a school can be really hard! I would never have sent Dc to any Catholic schools and I absolutely don’t want the Hail Mary ethos.

CofE schools greatly vary in character and ethos. VA CofE can be more full on. Our local
VC CofE was really relaxed when dc were there. Now the head took the name of his wife. (So wile is everywhere) and they pray before every lesson. I would run a mile from constant prayers too. The former head was far more standard CofE. Short daily act of worship like the state schools and carol service in the church! Vicar even sent his DC to another CofE school! If you can get a less religious one, great.

They should all teach the agreed syllabus in RE. Parents withdrew children from visiting the mosque though! So it’s their religion only and everyone is not truly welcome. Would you want to be a Muslim in a school where Christian parents refuse to let their DC visit a mosque? Horrible attitude.

@Honeywaffles1
You said you were the governor in your post about governance. Now it’s your friend?

We also had a choice of only catholic or CofE. Choice was easy as no one gets in the catholic school by us unless they are baptised etc. I was hesitant re CofE as am not religious. Some things at first feel a bit full on when the kids come home reciting bible at you, but that wanes. They also teach Islam and Judaism at our school

Yes. RE lessons are an agreed syllabus. It usually strikes a balance between the main world religions and who worships what locally. However I don’t think DC should be pulled out from these lessons. Dally act of worship is another matter entirely.

Would they not go to the school your existing child is at, where you are a governor? They would likely have sibling priority. This appears to to be a religious school itself, as you state in your other post about being a governor there. So you presumably already have a good idea about their level of religious practise.

My kids go to a rural CofE school and have learn about lots of religions as well as Christian. The Christian flavour comes through most strongly as living Christian values, so they actively support the local homeless charity and food banks and encourage their community to join in. They are big on inclusively, learning about privilege, so disadvantaged groups are thought about and strategies for inclusion are led by the kids. I feel that the core values they are being taught are faultless. We talk about things at home and my kids don't believe in God, but do think that if you take any religion in the world and replace the word God with Love it mostly still makes sense, so think that the higher purpose and goal for us all is Love in all its many forms.

I was raised CofE and my school was nowhere near as constructive or positive. Am now atheist and think that visit the school and go with the vibe that feels right is your best strategy.

I'm a teacher in a C of E school. When we pray children are always given a choice between joining in with the prayer or using the time for reflection.
Catholic and Cof E schools actually have completely different remits. Catholic schools are supposed to provide education for catholic children (although lots of non catholic children go to them obviously) whereas C of E schools provide education for the community they're in so will generally admit children primarily based on a catchment area rather than on a family's religious beliefs.
I previously worked in a city where the C of E primaries were thought to be the best and were very popular. Lots of the children went on to the catholic secondary.

I’m a catholic and work in a Church of England primary school. Our school iss most definitely not ‘more lax’ when it comes to religion; in fact it’s the opposite. I feel like I should come to work dressed as a vicarious sometimes! I think it entirely depends on the headteacher and the emphasis they place on it being ‘a church school’

vicar not victorious obviously!

The very fact that you have no practical choice but to send your child to either a Catholic or CoE school is a strong reason why religious funding of state schools should be banned.

Our local Catholic primary is affiliated with a church who are currently supporting protestors outside an abortion clinic to stand in the street, while they upset those in need of accessing healthcare. Absolute nut jobs and no way should they be in charge of any child’s education.

Interesting! We only have C of E and one catholic school in my area, and it never occurred to me that this would be the reason why (also rural).

I went to a c of e primary. I remember lots of religious school assemblies and we had the Eucharist assemblies too fairly often. But everything was fairly lighthearted, no fire and brimstone. Last year my mum showed me some of my old primary school workbooks she'd kept. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see that our RE lessons were really quite varied in terms of teaching about different religions, despite being a very, very white British area. It seems like we'd spend each term fairly well focused on one particular religion, and it would swap each term. I think that's nice! 😊

Yes. Some C of E schools are more religious but in the main catholic schools are more observant.
My non catholic kids know all the prayers etc and there are moments when you have to explain stuff e.g when other children are doing first communion and yours aren’t. But either school will have significant religious aspects and you probably need to make your peace with that. Don’t be the parent making a fuss every time your child partakes in religious practice if you send them to a religious school.

Therefore, it was stated that the best way to spread their religion, draw people into churches, and encourage donations to keep them operating was through schools. I hope I said that correctly.

OP, If you have such a negative view of the Catholic Faith why are you even considering sending your child to a Catholic School?

Being a Catholic isn't just a faith, it is a way of life.

You'd be better off applying to the C of E school as they aren't quite so prescriptive with their teachings.