Catholic or Church of England Primary School?

[Honeywaffles1]

I don't practise either religion, but these are pretty much my only options within a two-mile radius.

There are many ”outstanding” Catholic schools, but I've heard that the Church of England takes a more lax approach to religion than the RC church, where converting to their religion is the top priority.

Note: I don't need to be told to find a school that is not religious because I don't want to have to take my son on two buses in the morning and two in the afternoon.

There is a lot of variation. You need to visit, talk to other parents etc and compare the specific schools. You can't generalise that Cof E schools do X and RC schools do Y because it varies so much from place to place.
In our area none of the RC schools prepare pupils for First Communion or Confirmation during school time for example. All that is done either at Church on Sundays or as an after school activity. And a comparatively small proportion of pupils participate. Typically less than a third of the pupils at our nearest RC Primary School attend First Holy Communion classes I'd estimate, and probably about a tenth of the secondary pupils do the Confirmation classes. So a child not participating would definitely not stand out at all.
My DH is Roman Catholic and yes, when he was a kid, all that sort of thing was a fundamental part of the school curriculum. Whole classes were "done" at the same time and there were virtually no non Catholics in school. It is completely different now - or at least it is where we live. Our children are practising Catholics but went to a C of E primary and non denominational secondary and there are loads of pupils of other, or no faith attending the RC schools.Obviously you'd expect a particular slant to RE etc in denominational schools but they do still have to follow the national curriculum, and certainly round here there is not a massive difference.

@TizerorFizz
Taking religion out of school altogether would be best. However powerful churches won’t do that.

And why should they, when most of them own both the land the schools are built on as well as the school buildings?

Your comment is overly simplistic.

For that to happen the Local Authority/Government would have to buy the land and buildings off the church in question (RC or C of E) and change the school into a secular one.
This would disenfranchise those pupils who's parents wanted a religious education for them, and they would have to go elsewhere

Without the support from a Church (usually about 10% of costs) the school might well close - this is especially true in rural areas.

In areas in UK where there is a large Islamic population (and the absence of a Madrasa) Catholic schools are a popular choice. They are chosen because of the ethos and "value system", good discipline, as well as Catholic schools' reputation for a "good standard of education".

Catholic schools combine ethnic diversity with high standards. In Catholic primary schools, 37% of pupils are from ethnic minorities, higher than the national average.

Faith schools may have extra resources and opportunities that may not be available at other places. For instance, a church school would have a school chaplain. S/he is not there to convert anyone, but they offer an extra pair of ears - trained in compassionate listening - to support a struggling child. There may be interesting extra-curriculum activities, more hands-on involvement in community projects and such like.

There appears to be more opportunities for pastoral care and catering for the children's mental health in faith schools as well. Whatever the tradition, in a faith school you never stop talking about hope, forgiveness, helping the weak, self-denial, moderation, the purpose of life, and our duty to make the most of it. All of these shape the way a child sees the world. Some of this talk will sink in, and, hopefully, strengthen children's self-esteem and encourage them to be brave and follow their dreams in the future.

@PeppaPigsBonnet I don't think that's quite right. Local authorities pay all the running costs, the church only pays 10% of capital funded projects, generally that less than 1% of the overall costs. And that's only for VA schools, VC schools are entirely local authority funded.

DS's village primary has no chaplain, just the local vicar visiting. Community schools in local parishes also have the vicar coming in.

And I think the notion that teachers in community schools are somehow less skilled or less concerned with the children's mental health and wellbeing or with providing a broad curriculum, because the schools aren't run by people of faith, is pretty unattractive.

@Cockerdileteeth And I think the notion that teachers in community schools are somehow less skilled or less concerned with the children's mental health and wellbeing or with providing a broad curriculum, because the schools aren't run by people of faith, is pretty unattractive.

I didn't actually say that.

However, staff at faith schools (in my experience) are serving as staff because they genuinely want to be a part of the education process. They view their position more as a calling than a career. In some cases they are earning significantly less than their secular counterparts, and do not have any sort of tenure system in place. This eliminates the small segment of teachers sometimes found in secular schools who are putting in time until retirement, or who are ineffective but tenured.

I'm sorry you're trapped in one of those dreadful areas where the schools are religious only.
Over the two mid pick CofE but I'd be telling my child facts about religion, and explaining it's faith that you hear in the preachings rather than fact and get them
To understand the difference. I'd make it clear to the school also about my child and they shouldn't enforce any religious worship or cause drama if they chose not to believe.
I absolutely abhor religion and schooling being mixed. In my opinion the church uses it as a way to indoctrinate children in the guise of schooling. It shouldn't be allowed IMO

Rubbish, of course they do ... why spend 20% of their time in schools indoctrinating (albeit on the DL a lot of the time) ... they have the ear and brainwashing time of little children who are sponges - yea not all will be caught in their net but they'll certainly get their share ... makes me cross

Pictures of the Pope and The Queen? Lol
The Pope is the head of the RC church and the Queen was the head of the CofE!
I'm not sure how a picture of the PM was perceived to religious. 😆
That would be sacrilegious and breaking the first of the ten Commandments.

1. I am the Lord your God and you shall not have strange Gods before me.

Rosary beads everywhere? That's a strange one.

Hah! Glad I wasn't the only one!

I was raised Catholic in a predominantly Catholic country. The fastest growing 'faith' now is 'No religion' in that country.

At primary school, 30-40 years ago, I only recall religion being taught when you were in First Communion year (so aged 7-8). The small town I lived in also had a CofE school but it was a lot smaller (about 20 students in total vs 160 students in total in the RC school). I think we did have religion classes every now and again aside from that, but I don't recall them too much apart from some memories of being taught about being kind and being a good friend and not being greedy. They also had child-friendly stories from the bible. The highlight of the year was The Nativity (which was where the little ones performed a play at Christmas about the birth of Jesus).
My mother (obviously a generation before that), had to memorise a thing called the Catechism but we didn't. We, like another poster above, got an occasional trip to the local church once a year maybe to attend Mass (and it was a welcome reprieve).
As the school was RC, children were prepped for the sacraments (First Communion, First Confession and Holy Confirmation) during the school hours.

I went on to attend a RC convent school. The only prayers there that I recall was a very rushed Our Father by the Maths teacher.

The most fundamental difference in beliefs between CofE and RC (apart from divorce and contraception and homosexuality lol) was that the CofE don't believe that Mary the mother of God was a virgin.

I vividly recall Mass on a Sunday and the sheer boredom of it. I used to break my father's heart asking him 'are we near the communion bit yet Daddy?' because I knew that it was soon over when the 'Communion bit' started. I also recall the most fervent thing I ever said at a Mass being the very last bit where the priest says 'Go in peace to love and serve the Lord'. The response was 'Thanks be to God' and I said that with genuine fervour 😆

Having being raised RC, when I had my own children, it was never a question in my mind but that I would have them baptised. I grew up with the teaching that every child is born with original sin and baptism removes that. I was indoctrinated enough (not at school, at home) to not take the risk in tempting the devil lol.

They went to RC primary school but we were only obliged to attend Mass once a month with our child in the year they were having their First Communion. Those Masses involved the children a lot. So they read the readings or they brought up the gifts or whatever whatever. First Communion day was a big event for them and they loved it. Dd after hers declares to me after the end "I just have to go and have a word with the Monsignor". I nearly broke in two laughing but clearly his approach was less standoffish than the priests I encountered in my childhood.

My children all now attend a CofE school, though they are Catholic. The focus is less on academia and more on producing well-rounded individuals (which is what I wanted for them personally). The ethos is CofE but it's not shoved down their throats.

If your focus is on academic achievement, I believe RC schools outperform CofE schools.

Chat with the schools and ask questions as you see fit. One will seem a better fit than the other and go with that one.

@custardbear I'm sorry you're trapped in one of those dreadful areas where the schools are religious only.

That's a rather unpleasant prejudiced comment about an area where there are 2 Faith Primary Schools within a small radius.

Would you make the same comment about an area that had a Jewish school, a Muslim School, or a Sikh School ?

This is an hilarious short film with actual real recordings from the 1960s in Ireland where the very young children (5 and 6 maybe) were asked questions about religion. It's hilarious. It's animated too, but the recording is real.

20% of the day to religion??? I've never heard of that!! Most Catholic primaries get excellent SATs results so they can't be spending that much time on RE!
Having said that, Catholic schools are usually clearly and distinctly Catholic. You wouldn't get in our local if you weren't an active, practising Catholic family.
I'm Catholic but DH isn't so our DCs went to Cof E. It was certainly much much much more diverse than the local Catholic school - probably about 50% C of E and 50% all other faiths.
If you're not Catholic, leave a place at the Catholic school for someone who is, and for whom it would be a true benefit.

There is no way 20% of any school either I attended or my dc attended was devoted to religion!

Yes of course I would - religion doesn't belong in schools, at all! It's just indoctrination, couldn't care what religion it was, it has no place, except teaching fact about religions across the globe, nothing else. No worship, no prayers, no hymns, nothing - all that belongs either in a church /synagogue/temple etc or
In the home ... not in schools and certainly not in schools where no other choice is available

I'm with you on that and there is strong swing in Ireland to what I believe is called Educate Together schools which are non-denominational.

This playlist has all the little clips (broken up separately). It was nominated for an Oscar.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhaebZCJgsg5mjL-NUqbqRcolb7pialC0

Hope this link works. I couldn't find the full length (about 18 minutes in total I think) but I bought it for one of my friends for her birthday because we was from Dublin which has a strong accent and her accent was very similar to these little children.

Arrange to visit each school and ask. They will all be different. Some do open days, some arrange individual visits.

All the schools near me are CofE. For some, this means they see themselves as a religious school. They told me that they see religious education of the children as part of their job. So there is daily prayer and Bible stories. Children are not compelled to take part, but it is expected and you would stand out if you didn't.

Other schools told me that a CofE school is there to provide a service (education) to the local community and religious education is in no way part of that service. So it is more like they felt that by providing quality education, they were fulfilling their own, private religious obligations. They did not see teaching the children about religion as part of that job. In fact the teaching staff weren't even religious, just the people governing the school.

It is sort of similar to my local CofE church. They will bury anyone in their churchyard. You don't have to be Christian, or pretend to be on the day. Their burial ground is there for anyone who lives in the village and wants to be buried there. Again, as a service provided to the community.

I went to a Catholic school. I would homeschool before ever dreaming of putting my child one. I have no experience of coe. But honestly, two buses or Catholic school? Two buses or move every time.

CoE any day, it's all about the values whereas RC is a way of life with lots of rituals. Also only RC are classed as faith schools. CoE depends on the head, local vicar and diocese but is always values based like compassion, forgiveness and tolerance.

It sounds like you had an horrific time of it?

I'm agnostic now as I am vehemently opposed to all religions as they are man-made and all appear to be derogatory to women.
The sexual abuse scandals in the RC church were the nail in the coffin for me. My dd plays violin and has a good singing voice but unknown to me, when my mother had her at weekends occasionally, she secretly brought my dd to Mass to play and sing in the church! We nearly came to blows on that one and I forbade her for EVER bringing dd into a church against my wishes EVER EVER EVER EVER.

One of my siblings lives in the US and while my nieces attend Catholic school, preparation for the sacraments is done outside of school hours. He has chosen to bring them up in the Catholic faith (it's hard to de-program yourself when you've been raised Catholic in the 70's and 80's).

I envy some of my older relatives (both grandmothers and the only grandfather I knew as my maternal grandfather died before I was born; and 2 of my aunts) as they have great faith. I think that their faith carries them through a lot. I was always a Doubting Thomas (Thomas was one of the 12 apostles who didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead until he had stuck his hand in the wound of Jesus).

There are teachings of morality which are useful from religions, but not many actually practice those teachings. The hypocrites.

I'm wondering @HauntersGonnaHaunt whether @SpottyStripyDuvet is Christy Moore in the DTs?

One of the lines from the song is 'I looked out from under the blanket and looked up at the fireplace and there was the pope and John. F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face'

Full lyrics - Delirium Tremens by Christy Moore

I dreamt a dream the other night I couldn't sleep a wink
The rats were tryin' to count the sheep and I was off the drink
There were footsteps in the parlour and voices on the stairs
I was climbin' up the walls and movin' round the chairs.
I looked out from under the blanket up at the fireplace.
The Pope and John F. Kennedy were starin' in me face.
Suddenly it dawned at me I was getting the old D.T.s
When the Child o' Prague began to dance around the mantlepiece.
Goodbye to the Port and Brandy, to the Vodka and the Stag,
To the Schmiddick and the Harpic, the bottled draught and keg.
As I sat lookin' up the Guinness ad I could never figure out
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout.
Well I swore upon the bible I'd never touch a drop.
My heart was palpitatin' I was sure 'twas going to stop,
Thinkin' I was dyin' I gave my soul to God to keep.
A tenner to St. Anthony to help me get some sleep.
I fell into an awful nightmare - got a dreadful shock.
When I dreamt there was no Duty-free at the airport down in Knock.
George Seawright was sayin' the rosary and SPUC were on the pill.
Frank Patterson was gargled and he singin' Spancil Hill.
Goodbye to the Port and Brandy, to the Vodka and the Stag,
To the Schmiddick and the Harpic, the bottled draught and keg.
As I sat lookin' up the Guinness ad I could never figure out
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout.
I dreamt that Mr. Haughey had recaptured Crossmaglen
Then Garret got re-elected and gave it back again.
Dick Spring and Roger Casement were on board the Marita-Ann
As she sailed into Fenit they were singin' Banna Strand.
I dreamt Archbishop McNamara was on Spike Island for 3 nights
Havin' been arrested for supportin' Traveller's rights.
I dreamt that Ruairi Quinn was smokin' marijuana in the Dail
Barry Desmond handin' Frenchies out to scuts in Fianna Fail.
Goodbye to the Port and Brandy, to the Vodka and the Stag,
To the Schmiddick and the Harpic, the bottled draught and keg.
As I sat lookin' up the Guinness ad I could never figure out
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout.
I dreamt of Nell McCafferty and Mary Kenny too
The things that we got up to, but I'm not tellin' you.
I dreamt I was in a jacuzzi along with Alice Glenn
'Twas then I knew I'd never ever, ever drink again.
Source: LyricFind

OP, in all seriousness though, I think you need to meet with each school having read their ethos', their admissions policies and how religion is taught in each of the schools.

I would then go to both schools and request a telephone meeting or F2F meeting (depending on availability) and write out every question you have prior to going to meet with them.

I can't advise either way having experienced only RC as a child but having had my children experience both ethos'.