School refuses independent after school discharge.

[Barrelofwine]

Hi all.

I need your guidance and expertise, please.

After a scrupulous research and long conversations me and my wife decided that our children are mature enough and the conditions are favourable for an independent walk back home from school.

Our son is y.5 (9y.o.) and our daughter is in y.3 (8y.o.), although very often she is the more mature one.

After an email exchange with the school we've been partially refused as the school has "legal safeguarding duties" and "other schools in the borough do the same" and they don't allow children younger than y.5 to walk back home unaccompanied. The 9y.o. Is fine coming back by himself (and he's loving it!)

I've got several questions her:

• isin't it the whole point of the government guidance is to leave the decision to individual parents?

• isn't the school infringing on my rights?

• I haven't been asked any questions by the school; how long is the walk? (0.3miles, considering that she will join her brother after 100 yards that's even less), how long will they be alone for (30 minutes). Hiw does the route looks like? (leafy, residential area l, crossing a road only once, residential road, barely any cars), Why there is no individual approach in contacts with the parents despite learning individualisation being on top of the agenda?

• Are there any services that I can contact if I feel I've been mistreated?

• what would you do next if you're 100% positive she's ready and safe to walk back independently?

Sorry for my rant, but I just feel we've been denied something here.

Our daughter is mature and responsible, she is on top of her learning being one of the best in the class. There is no social care involvement and we're both education professionals with tight grip around our children wellbeing.

At our school you can sign a consent form to state your child can leave the classroom without an adult at the end of the day from year 3. Some sign it, some don't. Once the child is gone from the classroom at 3.15 the school are no longer responsible for them and it is up to the parent what happens. Some might walk home on their own or go to a friends house if pre-arranged. Some go to a siblings class to meet a parent, my children meet me by the school gate. Your school obviously has a policy around this and the detail of the walk home planned for your daughter is entirely irrelevant. You can challenge the policy as it stands but they will have to consider all the possible outcomes of allowing children of this age to leave school alone if they want to change it. Your daughter walking home with her brother is just one of many.

Your "rights" will never trump child safeguarding

You can whine and complain all you like but you won't win this one

NSPCC advice isn't the law though.... Every establishment has the right to make their policies, however policies do not trump the law. Ever. This is how so many parents win SEN tribunals against badly worded EHC plans. I use this comparison as it's one I'm familiar with but it's the same here.
In my opinion it's not a battle worth starting with the school but NSPCC advice is not the law and neither is a school policy.
As for the example of a child waiting at their door... I don't really see the point. Are we really that far into safety madness that it's not ok to help a child? Is this child not allowed to have problem solving skills? Will this child not be in this situation as an adult?
Taking all risk taking away is really really detrimental for kids development. I despair at some of these comments.

OP is there a cultural mismatch here? Your sentence structure is very similar to that of people I know who have English as a second language. I'm wondering if your upbringing was in a country where it's normal for children this age to to walk home alone? And perhaps to be home alone?

I was a very responsible, cautious, sensible, intelligent 11yo and was responsible for picking up my DB from primary school when I started secondary school.

On more than one occasion I left the front door wide open. I also forgot to collect DB despite doing it every day. The final straw for my poor DM (which meant she had to quit her job!) was when I set fire to a pan on the hob trying to recreate a craft we'd been shown at school.

It's absolutely not safe for your very young children to be home alone. Say they have an argument, as kids do. One pushes the other, they bang their head and are knocked out. What will the other do? Call an ambulance? Or panic about being in trouble and try to cover it up/fix it somehow?

You seem to be under the illusion that a school's duty of care applies to its opening hours only. It doesn't.

@WeatherwaxLives haha you sound like a great child.
It's interesting though because the school is work in in London let's kids go home alone from y3. I don't know a single one that does but they all get the letter on the first day asking for permission.
This school is on a very busy street next to a tube station and it's never been a problem.

A friends children year 6 and year 4 walked home last year, but both mature/responsible and parent was at home waiting for them - just stuck due to work meetings. Not sure the school would have agreed to the year 4 if there was no-one at the other end and often one the parents would try to meet halfway.

My year 6 children are not allowed off the school bus if we are not there to meet them, they can end up doing a 20 minute loop, if we are late.

Taking all risk taking away is really really detrimental for kids development. I despair at some of these comments.

I think there is a very wide gap between 'taking all risk away' and what the OP proposes.

A gradual development of the child's independence and risk awareness - and their ability to problem solve with support - is brilliant. A gradual increase in the distance that they walk home alone, extended through e.g. short walks to the shop or to a friend's house at weekends, is brilliant and age appropriate, and with a supportive adult here to meet them at the end, any minor mishaps or 'what would you do if?' questions can be talked about and used as learning points.

Equally, gradually extending the period of time a child can be left unsupervised happens throughout young and middle childhood - from a parent nipping to the toilet while a toddler plays to being home while a parent puts out the rubbish, goes to the shop, drops a sibling at a club etc etc.

All of those are educational, supported risk-taking - like teaching a child to light a fire or cook or use a sharp knife or saw wood or climb trees, it moves from closely supervised through distantly supervised to truly independent as a child shows competence and maturity as they get older.

Going straight to 'walk home alone and look after yourself and your younger sibling alone at home for 30+ minutes, and respond appropriately to anything that might arise' is not educational, supported risk-taking.

my understanding is that safe guarding issues have to be child specific not blanket rules
social services are not interested in blanket rules about Y3/4/5/6 they are interested in whether a specific action is a danger to the child on question
it may be perfectly safe and reasonable for a responsible Y3 to walk 50 metres down the road from school to her home where a parent is in on the the other hand it may not be reasonable for a Y6 to walk 2.5 miles home alone crossing two dual carriageways which do not have crossing patrols.
if you send a signed letter to the school saying that Jane can walk home alone after school the school may initially repky she can't she is only in y4 however if you insist and they do call social services, social services will decide whether it is actually a safe guarding risk for jane to walk home alone, they will not be interested in whether it is against head teachers rules or whether it is safe for Jimmy Dave and Sue to do the same. generally speaking schools cease to be in "loco parentis" after the close of school.
we are in Scotland and only P1 and P2 are actually only released when parent / carer or child minder seen, the older ones are told if you are expecting someone to met you and they are not there walk back up school drive. Most P5-7 ( Y4-6) walk home alone or with their friends they are generally not alone and everyone knows everyone
I understand many primary schools in England from threads here seem to have a catchment radius of about 300metres so I would have thought nearly all 8 year olds could walk 300metres safely unless a major road to cross
Child abduction is no more common than 30/40/50 years ago and the risk of a child dying in a pedestrian road accident is much less than 30 years ago so in reality there is no more danger than when I was at primary in the 1970's when only children under 7 got collected and it would have been fine for an older child to walk home with younger sibling when I was 7/8 I walked home with my sister who was 5/6 this was not unique everyone did it and we lived in a big town in the Midlands back then

Teacup,

I say again - how many of the children you describe are looking after themselves and a younger sibling in an empty house when they get home?

It isn't the walking home per se. It is the fact that nobody is waiting for them or expecting them at home and that they are expected to care for themselves at home for 30+ minutes that is the main issue for me.

It is worth remembering that in the definition of 'Neglect' under safeguarding legislation, there is the following:

"A child's basic needs, such as food, clothing or shelter, are not met or they aren't properly supervised or kept safe."

Whether 30+ minutes at home every day unsupervised, after already walking home from school alone, is counted as 'not properly supervised' will of course depend on the ages of the children concerned, but it is under this definition that a school becoming aware of this arrangement would, at the very least, record the incident and very probably seek advice as to how to proceed.

So it seems that walking back home is fine and staying home alone isn't.

How about staying alone 10 minutes? Maybe unlocking only the door? Can they go through the the front gate by themselves?

@Barrelofwine

So it seems that walking back home is fine and staying home alone isn't.

How about staying alone 10 minutes? Maybe unlocking only the door? Can they go through the the front gate by themselves?

I am not saying that walking back home is 'fine' - if it is a popular route with many other accompanying children and adults, some of whom your children know and could call on for help, then the risk is relatively low, while if they are the only children walking that way, and they would have nobody to call upon if one fell or were approached in a way that worried them, that would be different. only you know the route and the circumstances.

Nor is being home alone for a few moments - gradually increasing with age - when already comfortably occupied with something, and with all physical needs taken care of.

It's the combination, the length of time, the two children, the uncertainty of the adult's return, the fact that nobody knows whether they got home safely or not ...it is all of those things in combination.

Let’s just assume you’re a shit dad or a troll and leave your wife to the parenting for everyone’s sake

Your rights end where your children's begin.

When I was 10 I started walking home, about half a mile, if that. I was tailed by a car one day, and in front of me was a man walking towards me. He tried to snag me as he walked past and I sprinted as fast as I could.

Of course nothing came of it when it was reported because it was a quiet and sleepy back street with no CCTV in an estate that had mostly pensioners in it.

So, no. It's not down to whether your kid knows the journey or how short the walk is.

Don't be a pillock. Think of your kids safety.

This can't be real.

What the fuck has reading for to do with anything (the mention of reading Harry Potter)
My 7 year old has read most of the books but he doesn't comprehend the fullness of it.

If this is real my heart bleeds for these poor kids, especially the 9 year old having to become a parent at such a tender age.

If you wish to make your children more independent, there are far better ways.

If you genuinely have no money for an hour of after school childcare, then the school may be able to advise possible ways forward if you speak to them in confidence.

Its not about your daughter being mature and capable. I am sure she is. Its about the dickheads in the world. What would she do if a stranger tried to get her into a car. She's small - cars reversing from a driveways are not always going to see her - you can't be sure a child her age is going to be super aware of cars reversing from driveways.

God you sound exhausting and I can’t see the point of this post at all, since it appears that your wife doesn’t agree with the 8yr old going home alone anyway. Not sure what you’re trying to get out of this apart from trying to rabble rouse people based on perfectly sensible response from the school which accords with your wife’s view anyway. Complete waste of time.

@Heronwatcher

God you sound exhausting and I can’t see the point of this post at all, since it appears that your wife doesn’t agree with the 8yr old going home alone anyway. Not sure what you’re trying to get out of this apart from trying to rabble rouse people based on perfectly sensible response from the school which accords with your wife’s view anyway. Complete waste of time.

You're right. It's a crusade for me atm.

You don't have a right to put your children at risk - which is what leaving them unsupervised at home would be doing, never mind the walking home bit.

The DSL will already be watching out for other signs of potential neglect now.

My almost 3 year old can use the front door key to open the door and knows exactly how to walk or balance-bike the entire 1 mile route to the preschool adjoining our local primary school. In fact he knows three different routes, via two parks. Should I let him walk the route alone?

@PennyWus

My almost 3 year old can use the front door key to open the door and knows exactly how to walk or balance-bike the entire 1 mile route to the preschool adjoining our local primary school. In fact he knows three different routes, via two parks. Should I let him walk the route alone?

Do you think it's safe for him to do it?

@TeacupDrama only some areas have catchment areas of 300M the op actually even says the distance in question here and many schools have rules in england on the age they will let them leave unsupervised so I am sure they are aware of safeguarding rules

This is just a goady thread anyway you can tell by the OP's responses , prob appear in the papers etc tomorrow