Removing reward badges on first pay back as punishment for behaviour in two zoom classes?

[ConcernedAboutRules]

Basically, DS who is normally very well behaved has been playing the class jokester on one or two zoom calls. He has been warned previously for this. Nothing too serious in my opinion. Now teacher has told him to expect to hand over all the badges and special jumper he's earned for various things and that he will no longer be on the school council etc. as soon as he arrives back during morning registration. Am I the only one thinking this is really unreasonable punishment given the situation and the fact he's known as 'the badge kid'?

RootyT00t

I'm probably going to be in trouble for this but having read your updates, I reckon we have all totally wasted our time.
Had this feeling too !

@Bunnybigears

I was asking if it was private school as all this emphasis on being on the school council and other titles/roles I cant remember and different colour jumpers seemed more likely in a private school than a state school. Normally in a state school such outward displays of a child's 'status' are normally discouraged which is why they have uniform so you can't tell the kids that have more money etc basednon what they are wearing. I would be seriously questioning a school that thought it was OK for a child (in the case OPs child) to wear such symbols of status. Yes it might have made OPs child feel good but how did it make the other children who didn't have these status symbols feel?!

Not really my department or my fault DS earned so many but word of warning keep you kids in check with stuff like this.

@itsgettingwierd

In the nicest possible way of your are VERY strict at home and he goes to a competitive school with high standards maybe he needs the pressure taken off of him?

No one can be perfect and held to high standards all the time. Kids need to be kids.

I'm not condoning what he's done but living in heat could feel like a pressure environment at that age can cause you to explode.

I'd give him the opportunity to gain all his stuff back tomorrow by showing you he means he's sorry by behaving. Give him strategies on how to react when others mention the badges etc. Because I'm sure there's some loving his fall from high - some kids absolutely live when the top dog comes down and will be hurtful over this.

Take the pressure off at home. Make it his safe space where he can test the boundaries and learn those lessons kids need to learn.

I've worked in education and with children for many years and seen many a kid crack under pressure.

Good advice thanks.

@Chunkyetfunky90

RootyT00t

I'm probably going to be in trouble for this but having read your updates, I reckon we have all totally wasted our time.
Had this feeling too !

Mmmm.

I await the update.

@Bunnybigears

That's not quite true. We have a different coloured jumper that's earned by someone who has displayed positive qualities every week - kindness, looking after someone, being helpful etc. They wear it for a week and then pass it back. See thats fine thats like glorified star of the week, OPs DS has had the jumper so long he doesnt actually own the normal school uniform jumper.

Correct he doesn't. He's had the yellow / golden one so long.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

Yes as I say I think he may need some additional help I'm seriously thinking of getting him to take down his certificates and stuff off his wall for his own good.

Doing it now it will just seem as further punishment. He'll have "nothing" left. Long term it might be beneficial, but short term might send him into an even bigger tailspin.

Instead leave it a week or two. Suggest redecorating/painting his bedroom. Suggest swapping them for some posters. Make it more grown up, about him and his likes /interests etc.

The awards will have to go to make room for all that. He can choose to throw away or keep in a folder /box.

Them disappearing naturally rather than a result of all this will be easier to adjust to and healthier.

Great idea with the bedroom given his reaction DS perhaps needs to grow up a bit.

@RootyT00t I'm with you

[quote Bunnybigears]@RootyT00t I'm with you[/quote]
In what sense do you not think I've come down on him hard enough did you not see my last update from the school?

Yes I saw your updates, and having seen them, I have said what I have said

@RootyT00t

Yes I saw your updates, and having seen them, I have said what I have said

I'd be with you on this too.

Not sure why so many feel they have wasted their time when I am taking on board everything you all say. This has come out of nowhere yes perhaps I was a little too proud in the playground but we are trying to move forward.

Numerous and one or two, could be that the behaviour has been going on for much longer than your son is admitting. He's not only been disruptive, but is actively encouraging other children to be so as well- and if he is someone that kids look up to- then that influence could have been causing regular issues for the teacher. She should have sent you a message regarding his behaviour- but at the age of 10 or 11- he should also have had some insight that this behaviour will have consequences, and I'd imagine he has several warnings first regarding his disruptions. You definitely need to talk to the teacher, but try to avoid going in guns blazing- you've heard his side/ the teacher should get the same. I also agree regarding talking to them before the start of class- taking everything in punishment does seem overly harsh. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

Rooty - me too. Sigh.

I actually feel rather sorry for your son (I am not ignoring the bad behaviour) because he’s being set up to fail by you and the school.
I think his self esteem must be very fragile because he’s expected to be ‘the golden boy’ at school and gets no respite from this at home because his parents are ‘very strict’.
I really am not surprised at his behaviour;; nowhere does he appear to be able to be himself.
I certainly don’t condone the bad behaviour but he’s now been humiliated at school and made an example of and at home the OP is seeking to pile punishment on top of punishment. How about actually sitting down and giving him a big hug? Show some empathy for the boy?
I was expected to be the ‘golden girl’, I never made it but was incessantly punished for not living up to my mother’s dreams.
It wrecked my childhood, and scarred my adult life because I was never what my mother wanted me to be.
FOG life-long.

@MrsTerryPratchett

IMO all this behaviour is part of the same thing. External locus. He cares vastly too much what others think of him.

Badge boy, all about what teachers think of him.

Playing up in class, all about what his classmates think of him.

Deleting messages, all about what you think of him.

Crying inconsolably about losing status, see above.

Grabbing another child's stickers, caring what that child thinks.

None of it is about doing the right thing because of his strong sense of ethics. By this age kids should have a fairly robust ethical structure, in fact it's normally much more black and white than adults'.

Misjudged things you might be doing... congratulating him on results, prizes and stickers rather than effort. Saying you're proud of him for achievements rather than checking what he is proud of himself. Recognizing achievements that are actually his. Attendance and punctuality are actually to do with parents, not children. He shouldn't be proud of that.

If he tells you about an achievement, ask what he's proud of. If he talks about helping someone or doing something, recognise the intent, not the act or the result.

He desperately needs an internal sense of self and a moral code. Because he's clearly at the age when adult praise matters less and peers matter more. Very dangerous time for a child with no internal locus.

This is also what I was trying to get at. Well said, MrsT

@ConcernedAboutKid

Not sure why so many feel they have wasted their time when I am taking on board everything you all say. This has come out of nowhere yes perhaps I was a little too proud in the playground but we are trying to move forward.

Mmhm.

Can I ask why you didn't deal with his poor behaviour at the time?

Sorry op. Have just read all your updates. Your ds deleting messages etc. I think going forward you do what you said you would and then move on with this awareness that your ds might not always tell you the truth. Keep a close eye on devices and friendships. Often kids act out to gain popularity and that might be part of this.

Can we not pile on? OP could easily have not come back to this thread when she found out the truth. Yet both times she discovered even worse behaviour, she returned and has been open about it. And she's continuing to listen and take things on board. The snidey comments and 'hmmm's aren't deserved.

My post was for @RootyT00t et al, btw

saraclara
I agree with you. The OP has taken on board what people have said, which is loads better than someone digging their heels in and insisting the teacher is wrong/child is an angel. She's also been willing to find ways forward to deal with the behaviour.

There's no need to stick the boot in.

I've seen loads of threads like this involving naughty kid behaviour where posters seem to goad the OP into giving harsher and harsher punishments and nothing seems to be enough.

OP I think you come across as balanced and sensible. He's a (fairly young) lad that did a naughty thing but it's not the crime of the century. He's had a punishment from school and you have supported that. I think you need to let him move on now and not make it into an even bigger deal. Build him up a bit and look forward positively.

@ConcernedAboutKid

Not sure why so many feel they have wasted their time when I am taking on board everything you all say. This has come out of nowhere yes perhaps I was a little too proud in the playground but we are trying to move forward.

Why would u use another account which is effectively for the same reason concerned about rules and concerned about kid , i totally understand why people would change their username but dont understand just keep it so similar? Good luck with it all and to be honesr in my opnion the whole allowing 1 child to have a different jumper from rest of class is in my experience as a teacher is really weird. Also if a child was keeping stickers on a jumper. That wouldn't automatically mean anything the next day because assumming the next day others would get stickers as im assumming he is not the only child in the class who get stickers!

@YanTanTethera123

I actually feel rather sorry for your son (I am not ignoring the bad behaviour) because he’s being set up to fail by you and the school. I think his self esteem must be very fragile because he’s expected to be ‘the golden boy’ at school and gets no respite from this at home because his parents are ‘very strict’. I really am not surprised at his behaviour;; nowhere does he appear to be able to be himself. I certainly don’t condone the bad behaviour but he’s now been humiliated at school and made an example of and at home the OP is seeking to pile punishment on top of punishment. How about actually sitting down and giving him a big hug? Show some empathy for the boy? I was expected to be the ‘golden girl’, I never made it but was incessantly punished for not living up to my mother’s dreams. It wrecked my childhood, and scarred my adult life because I was never what my mother wanted me to be. FOG life-long.

I agree with you. He is a 9 or 10 year old child. I totally agree with previous comments about the badges and certificates being an issue. I can’t see ‘badge boy’ as being a positive description by other children but it is a solid identity. He has sought attention by creating an alternative identity during lockdown and he has chosen the obvious one. Lockdown has been utterly traumatic for many children. Different children react differently. We had instances of lying and deception with our Y5 boy in the first lockdown. He is extroverted, and frankly he needs his friends. OP what I would be focusing on is helping him build friendships that are strong and meaningful, rather than him having to draw on a more superficial and less genuine public identity for social contact and validation. I agree that you need a much better balance between internal and external reinforcement. However that is a lifelong project, not a quick fix. I also agree that he needs compassion at this time. His whole identity was shattered once, and has been shattered again. He will need support and kindness to help him rebuild it. As someone said above, you do not want him to give up and rebuild it as the naughty boy.

Yes, he needs to know that lying and deception are unacceptable. But talk to him. Express your disappointment calmly, tell him it is about choices and you had hoped he would be able to make better choices. But tell him that he can make better choices in the future. Give him something to work towards. You also need to tell him that you work in partnership with the school.

I would also apologise to him for letting him tape the stickers onto his jumper day in and out. I would honestly tell him that it would probably have been better to put the stickers in a book, if he wanted to keep them, but that you should have helped him to know that he didn’t need to wear them all the time because it is inside that we should feel proud of our achievements. I think you should also acknowledge that it must have been really hard for him in lockdown, and he made some bad choices, but he doesn’t need that define him, anymore than he needs his stickers. Tell him some positive things about himself and tell him that you can work together to move forward. That will give him some hope, and whilst you don’t diminish his bad behaviour, you are clear that there is more to him than that and he can make better choices moving forward.

I make mistakes as a parent all the time. You can only own them and try to move forward. Same as your child. If you admit your mistakes as a parent you will let him know that mistakes are okay, as long as you learn from them and try to not make them again.

I think the problem is a child taping his stickers on to his jumper everyday since year 3 (and being allowed to) by his mother/the school seems so out of the ordinary, also the OPs language about him now being an average Joe etc. Surely someone at the school, OP, OPs husband, OPs friends and family could see this as very odd and potentially damaging behaviour?!