Removing reward badges on first pay back as punishment for behaviour in two zoom classes?

[ConcernedAboutRules]

Basically, DS who is normally very well behaved has been playing the class jokester on one or two zoom calls. He has been warned previously for this. Nothing too serious in my opinion. Now teacher has told him to expect to hand over all the badges and special jumper he's earned for various things and that he will no longer be on the school council etc. as soon as he arrives back during morning registration. Am I the only one thinking this is really unreasonable punishment given the situation and the fact he's known as 'the badge kid'?

That's a lot of responsibility for one child. All of those roles at the same time.

Is it a particularly small class/school? I ask because I would've thought those roles would have been shared out among several children.

I think he absolutely should have been punished (with the device removal at home, as you've already said) but something about the way this has been handled doesn't sit right with me somehow. A child acting completely out of character during lockdown would have been cause for concern at my school. Pastoral staff would have been looking to find out the reason why his behaviour changed.

Either way, I think you've handled this well. It must have been a shock to find out what had really been happening.

@FeckinCat

That's a lot of responsibility for one child. All of those roles at the same time.

Is it a particularly small class/school? I ask because I would've thought those roles would have been shared out among several children.

I think he absolutely should have been punished (with the device removal at home, as you've already said) but something about the way this has been handled doesn't sit right with me somehow. A child acting completely out of character during lockdown would have been cause for concern at my school. Pastoral staff would have been looking to find out the reason why his behaviour changed.

Either way, I think you've handled this well. It must have been a shock to find out what had really been happening.

My guess?

His behaviour didn't change. He's always been like this, and OP was too blinded by the badges to see it.

He's playing you with the lockdown thing. And the teacher may have removed his jumper etc whilst the other children were in the room but she hasn't made everyone sit and watch. She has also said that he will be able to earn some of his badges etc back. He has been very rude and disrespectful. If you start complaining now you risk this behaviour escalating and his attitude taking a nosedive.

The difficult thing for the good kids who are usually known to excel is

A) they cannot always maintain it indefinitely and

B) they have further to fall.

He's clearly been an excellent model student and then went to being one of the worst behaved.
The teacher has shown him what consequences of this can be.

Yes it's harsh but he went beyond bad behaviour to inciting others and deleting voicemails.

Plus he's now having to explain to his peers that actually it wasn't a good idea to encourage them and teach them bad things either.

Right now he is and will be crushed. But use it as a learning opportunity. Recognise and empathise with how he feels but make sure he knows he brought it in himself. And he now has a choice to make. Does he want to be too kid again - if so aim for that or would he rather just be one of the group if he cannot maintain that perfect persona.

Obviously acknowledge lockdown and wanting to be noticed and talk to him about the right way to go about this. Because reading your posts it sounds like he's been noticed for being perfect Peter and as soon as that didn't happen because of zoom he didn't have the skills to get recognised another correct way. He's year 5 and needs to learn them quickly because he's heading to secondary school next year.

Never a bad time to realise you can learn from your mistakes.

Is it a private school OP?

OP, he played you like a fiddle before and I think he's managing to do it again.

The fact he deleted the voicemails is the main concern IMO- that's really serious behaviour, and that In itself would have made me take the stickers. I can see why he's no longer allowed to be captain etc - they are meant to be a role model, no? I don't think there's anything you can do bar apologise to the teacher, not complain.

Tapes them on himself. Certainly not coming from me.

You condoned it by letting him though.

I do think this is better to have happened now then when he transfers to secondary school though.

I’d want to be talking to him and trying to frame this as a new start-that he is fine in and of himself: the badges don’t make him ‘good’ any more than they make him ‘bulletproof’, the attention-seeking naughtiness doesn’t work to make him popular in the same way that the magic-popularity-badge-boy doesn’t work... he is just him and doing his best and being proud of himself is the desirable outcome.

There’s a lot of harsh comments on here condemning a y5 boy for, frankly, simply being a bit of a twerp.

simply being a bit of a twerp.

Lying to delete voicemails isn't being a bit of a twerp. It's a deliberate action and premeditated.

I'm interested to hear from OP once she has spoken to the school.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

simply being a bit of a twerp.

Lying to delete voicemails isn't being a bit of a twerp. It's a deliberate action and premeditated.

I'm interested to hear from OP once she has spoken to the school.

She has spoken to school. Update above.

Honestly?

I think you should be thanking the teacher. If your son was allowed to muck about often, lie at home and get away with it with a minor punishment then it shows him that he can get away with being a bad influence to others almost Scott free.

If he learns this in y5 then what's the stop him doing it in Y6 and then secondary school. He's setting himself up as the class clown which isn't conducive to his education or anyone else's.

The teacher has taken a route that won't be popular with parents but is the best for the future of your child.

In addition, Children in my class tape stickers on so they don't come off during the day then transfer to a sheet at home. Might be an idea going forward.

itsgettingwierd

HercwasanEnemyofEducation
simply being a bit of a twerp.

Lying to delete voicemails isn't being a bit of a twerp. It's a deliberate action and premeditated.

I'm interested to hear from OP once she has spoken to the school.

She has spoken to school. Update above.
No she’s calling school again to complain

She's calling school again because she wasn't happy with the first time she spoke to them.

She has spoken to school. Update above.

She's speaking to the teacher again at 530.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. I'm not clear about what your DS actually did? I know you say 'hand gestures' and that he involved other children, but what exactly?

You sound utterly OTT about DS, both his behaviour - which I think you are now over-reacting to, I think, and then feeling excessively sorry for him.

How did he know to delete your voicemail? How did he know the teacher was ringing you each day?

If he did delete those messages, I'd have no sympathy for him, and would be having a very stern conversation with him.

The behaviour in school is for the school to address. The list of consequences sound lengthy but I'm still unsure what he did.

I'd be getting exact details from the teacher, then discussing with the teacher how he should improve and what she needs him to do. There should be some chance for him to earn his roles back again.

The stickers make no sense whatsoever to me.

I’d let this settle and see if he learns, rather than stirring it up anymore.

I did something similar at school - this was back way before Skype and video calls and even internet - but I was the good pupil, the one who never did wrong. I did something really stupid for reasons I can’t even fathom, and of course, I was punished and yes, I was in floods of tears over it because I had lost that prestige. But it was a lesson. I never did anything like that again. I went on through the rest of school being the good pupil with only that one mark against me. If anything, it reinforced to me who I truly was. If your son is the same, this will be a lesson. Yes, it’s terrible to be caught and lose your special privileges but he made a decision just as I did. It won’t scar him for life. He’ll live and learn and grow.

@ConcernedAboutRules

Hi, all sorry had an entire post written and then accidently clicked refresh.

Re recent posts we are mindful of the impact of shame on him and have talked about how the lying most stop. And we have decided other than removal ALL devices from him coming in today for the foreseeable we will not be removing other awards and such he displays at home. We will also be having him write a formal letter of apology to his teacher. As I posted last night, he's been so upset by being found out etc. he refused to remove his coat until bedtime, yes really. We have talked to him about why he did it and to be honest I have a lump in my throat it seems that the mental health effects of lockdown made him feel unnoticed and lonely despite the fact he has had parental input I think this is a ‘I’m missing my friends thing’. I’m heartbroken. Oh my god he did all this for attention and then didn't want to be caught. As for where he learned the hand gestures, we can only assume the internet.

Re some asking specific sticker and badge related question, he had a golden as opposed to blue sweatshirt as he was the elected House Captain which he has held since year 3 because he was re-elected he kept paper stickers about 4 on his jumper (for good work etc. star of the week etc.) to augment his number of pin badges which he has for a number of things ever increasing since year 3 with him re-earning them each year, these are where: attendance, good conduct, school council rep for his class, a house captain, badge to go with the jumper, class monitor (who makes sure everyone is walking single file etc. with no talking on the way to assembly and does other odd jobs) a That said as ScottishStottie pointed out it's a strange moniker to have gone by, but DS is a bit geeky so probs felt he was held in esteem rather than it being seen as weird. In any case we have had a chat and I've said even if he gets more stickers, he's not to keep them on his jumper in the future. We have assured him he's not a different person just our DS who made a mistake but it's a tough transition for him and said he feels like 'I'm now one of the naughty kids' As Lady Cat Stark points out it's probs a good time to get him off all this kind of stuff. As Remaker said it's time to start 'severing external displays of attachment. Which the school have done as far as DS is concerned. I’m hoping he won’t spiral but I’m still worried about how the punishment was conducted. Which given how upset DS was I’m assuming is actuate. Not sure if I should complain or not. DS said the following conversation took place just before the teacher quieted the class for registration her having called him over:

Teacher: DS can you come here please? Take your coat off first.
DS: Hello miss I’m sorry for what happened.
Teacher: I’m sorry you have been acting up like this it’s a bit late for that.
DS: Oh.
Teacher: (according to DS looks down as his sweatshirt) can you take those stickers off please you have had some of them long enough anyway. Put them on here (a card).
DS: Starts getting a bit upset at this point teacher asked him to stand outside for a min.
Teacher: Tells him he has brought the school into disrepute and he’s lucky they have just returned from lockdown or he would have been excluded. Asks him to remove the House Captain, Form Rep and Monitor badges his sweatshirt and then remove it and told him to go to lost property to get a blue one Informs him he’s now on report and will be receiving detention and that no matter his behaviour he is no longer form rep house captain or monitor and that it’s possible if he’s good for the next three weeks he might get one of the attendance or conduct badges back.

So now the vice house captain has taken over his role and a new monitor and form rep will be appointed. And DS spent the say being asked questions about it as of course the other kids noticed to the point where some people who aren’t in his class asked his name for the first time.

I just don’t know if this was the right way to go about the actual removal almost a literal dressing down. But I’m not sure there was an easier way short of giving him a blue jumper and telling him to hand the jumper he had over the next day?

Blimey.. teacher here and IMO that is completely over the top and unnecessary. I'm sure your DS has well and truly learnt his lesson but bless his heart he's only 9/10 and kids have had a bloody lot to contend with.

Spoken to the school back shortly just fixing some gruel for my now internally excluded angel.

@lydia2021

Some teachers aren't fit to teach. Its savage and unnecessary. If my kid was treated like that, I would move him elsewhere. Has his teacher any idea of how his self esteem will be shattered just because he acted out on a zoom call. Teacher needs to chill out, and clearly doesnt understand children. He was at home ffs

Where someone should have been supervising him and making sure he didn't behave so badly in lessons. Whether on Zoom or in class, that behaviour is unacceptable.

I would move on. He had learnt a lesson here. All kids are capable of being prefects or disruptors, it's totally normal.

I did some daft sneaky stuff when I was a kid. I'm not a terrible person. Neither does what your son did make him a bad person. He just chose unwisely.

I can see why the teacher had to do this though. If I'd seen a kid on my sons call acting like that I wouldnt then expect to see him later representing the school on a council etc.

Anyway he's been punished. Next lesson: forgiveness.

It is the child's behaviour that was unacceptable.

The child ("angel") is now internally excluded.

I suspect we are getting a very one-sided account of events if a mother refers to her child as an "angel" after already describing his (probably watered down version of his) unacceptable behaviour to us.

@eyeslikebutterflies

Gosh that's harsh. I don't think the teacher handled that at all well. While he clearly needed to be punished, there's a gulf between appropriate punishment and public humiliation - which is what your son experienced. When you add the fact that the impact of lockdown on the mental health of young children has been very well documented - and is apparently worst for your son's age group - it seems even harsher.

I would speak not to the teacher but to the head, personally. I would start by acknowledging what your son did, and that you support both appropriate punishment and some 'learnings' (such as the letter to the teacher you suggested).

But I would also ask the head for some support in approaching the teacher, so that the latter understands that public shaming is at best counter-productive, at worst damaging to your son's mental health. And then developing a plan to build his self-confidence back up. This could be in a productive way that reflects his 'wrongs' (so he 'earns' his badges back, for example), so that there is a link between what he did and how he can 'improve'.

Poor kid. My daughter is in year 5. They feel public humiliation so keenly at that age, it's something that will unfortunately stay with him for a long time. I do think his teacher has lost all sense of perspective.

I've just spoken to the school apparently there has been a violent incident today and DS is going on internal exclusion but this punishment will be suspended for a few weeks until he settles back in as 'average joe pupil. Another kid commented who had stickers re where his where.... DS tried to grab said kids off him.

@SweetPetrichor

I’d let this settle and see if he learns, rather than stirring it up anymore.

I did something similar at school - this was back way before Skype and video calls and even internet - but I was the good pupil, the one who never did wrong. I did something really stupid for reasons I can’t even fathom, and of course, I was punished and yes, I was in floods of tears over it because I had lost that prestige. But it was a lesson. I never did anything like that again. I went on through the rest of school being the good pupil with only that one mark against me. If anything, it reinforced to me who I truly was. If your son is the same, this will be a lesson. Yes, it’s terrible to be caught and lose your special privileges but he made a decision just as I did. It won’t scar him for life. He’ll live and learn and grow.

Gestures as in swearing including the middle finger. What happened in your case exactly? I've just spoken to the school apparently there has been a violent incident today and DS is going on internal exclusion but this punishment will be suspended for a few weeks until he settles back in as 'average joe pupil. Another kid commented who had stickers re where his where.... DS tried to grab said kids off him.

Did your ds mention the violent incident op?,

Your da is suffering the consequences of his actions now.

As awful as that is for him and you seeing it it's reassuring he cares.

Violence is t the way to deal with it though and that's another lesson he's ticked off his list. Kids make mistakes. Learning from them is what sets them up from the future.

I appreciate the schools stance of suspending it but it's recommended consequences are immediate or the child forgets why they got it or he'll chill out and settle back in and start to behave and then it'll make it all come back and him angry again.

Right now I'd honestly focus the conversation on how he can make things better. What he's done he's done. He can take that back.

Children need to know their mistakes don't define them if they can make amends.