Current school and new schools contacting each other

[drspouse]

I have posted in SEN about this but this is a bit more of a general issue.

Our DS is in Y2 and his current school are saying they can't meet his needs. We're just waiting for the outcome of the EHCP panel but we are sure they are going to approve 1:1 (he currently has this) and then it's a case of what else we think he needs that we may need to appeal for.

Current school are pushing us to look at special schools so they can get rid. We think he could manage a smaller mainstream school (currently things like playground noise, noisy classrooms next to each other etc. are a struggle for him).

We rang one smaller mainstream school that was recommended to us by a carer who knows the local schools. Instead of ringing us back, the other school rang his current school (and didn't ring us back).

We are not sure if we can do anything about this. We wanted to contact smaller mainstream schools once we have his EHCP confirmed. But what can we do to prevent his current school from talking to them (and them from talking to his current school)?

Do we HAVE to tell other schools where he is currently? Are they allowed to talk to other schools about him?

FWIW running around and not sitting when he should/talking all the time are also classic HFA. I'm not trying to diagnose your son through a screen but those things could also be ASD symptoms. You really do need a proper ADOS.

They are core symptoms of ADHD. They aren't on the diagnostic criteria for ASD.
I've noticed that people (in general, including on MN) are really happy to hear that a child has ASD and see it as a "proper" diagnosis. ADHD not so much. I have no idea why but it seems like despite the professionals saying it's classic ADHD and not ASD, armchair psychologists think he can't possibly NOT have ASD if he has SEN because all children with SEN MUST have ASD.

Why are you posting and asking questions then? You clearly don't want to hear anything people have to say and are so rude about it.

In all the posts you have written about your son, it screams ASD and ADHD (and I have a son diagnosed with both so I'm not an 'armchair psychologist'). Your post is really offensive suggesting that people want an ASD diagnosis.

If you don't want comments, stop asking questions and posting.

What questions have I asked apart from the original one?
How can you know more about my child than the professionals that have met him (OK, I'll accept that's another question!)

You keep missing the point completely.

No one is saying they know more about your child or are trying to diagnose him. Everyone is trying to get you to see that you are completely closed off to anything other that what you want to believe. As fellow parents going through this, that is never the case.

But clearly, everyone should stop trying to help you.

And I was referring to your various threads.

I've said this several times.
We saw a psychiatrist.
The psychiatrist diagnosed ADHD.
The psychiatrist is also qualified to diagnose ASD.
The psychiatrist says he does not meet criteria for ASD.
Why on earth would we waste time/money/energy pursuing a second opinion? We're talking either £000s or a two year wait. What would it gain, especially as if he's right we'd be exactly where we are only later/poorer.
I've posted on threads where all I have said is "my DS has SEN", not a word more, and someone has assumed he has ASD.
It's the default assumption.

Completely missing the point again.....

What is the point then? Please explain it more simply if the point isn't "pursue an ASD diagnosis now because we all know your DS better than you do".

I already explained. You don't want to hear it. It's got nothing to do with any diagnosis and lots to do with where your head is at. I wish you well.

Clearly not well enough. All you are saying is I need to agree that my DS has ASD. Why would I do that? What would it get us? It wouldn't get us a place in an ASD specific school. It would change nothing at his current school, it wouldn't change our decision to medicate for ADHD. What would change?

And my head is fine, thanks, well, it would be if we had a school place that worked, but we're working on that.

Just to add something for you think about dd's EHCP has £23k funding for private tutors because the LA in their wisdom decided that they would place her is a school that couldn't teach her the academics. It's a moot point because she can't attend the school anyway but just to illustrate that you can secure funding through an EHCP to prop up the shortfall of a particular placement. There is also more funding for homework after school support and SALT and OT so it's worth about £49k.

You're so rude and arrogant. I'm not surprised you're having the level of difficulty you're having. I suspect it's all a cover up for what's going on in your head and this is your defence. I'm bowing out now as you are just saying the same things over and over again even though it's got nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Life is too short to help people that couldn't care less.

flesh that's helpful.
holding erm yeah ok. You know all about me clearly.

Let's not be unpleasant about OP, they are stuck in very stressful situation.
Sometimes schools get stuck in a very negative view about some of their pupils. I have come across this at work more than once.
One referral I once got about a dc made my hair stand on end and genuinely worry if I could safely provide a service for them. Many risk assessments later they arrived and I never once had to remind them of the basic room rules.
It is hard to know how much is about being in a very different situation and how much is people looking for things to confirm their biases.
I have had other dc who put huge effort to attend sessions who would then be called lazy by school workers during multi agency meetings.
One issue is that school workers can take the current situation at school and extrapolate that this is the universal state of the dc, lazy, violent, unable to listen to instruction for example rather than just being how they present at school with the inputs they are getting at present.

One issue is that school workers can take the current situation at school and extrapolate that this is the universal state of the dc

Exactly - and it can be reversed as well - that someone doing a diagnosis or examination outside school without in-school observation can assume that the child they see is exactly as they present in the classroom. Or a parent can assume that the child presents in the same way at school and at home. That's why good EHCPs - in fact good SEN paperwork in general - takes into account the views of all those involved and identifies where these agree, and where there are differences to be explored, and why open conversations between all professionals and carers involved are so important, rather than taking a hierarchical view in which certain people's views are more valid than others. I have seen EHCPs that look as if they have been written about several different people, but where all those who know the child agree that all sections are correct because the child presents so differently in different circumstances. It is only where 1 part or 1 professional becomes insistent that their view is the 'right' one and others are 'inaccurate' or 'wrong' or 'lying' that the needs of the child - and WHY the different reports are so different - become lost.

I agree completely cant

Well said can't

Thank you, that makes perfect sense.
We used to have a child who was aggressive at home but learning, but only a bit hyper, and learning, at school.
We now have a child who is no longer nearly as aggressive at home, and still learning - but with loads to catch up on - but who is disruptive, and not paying attention, and therefore not learning, at school.
School did not really think the aggression at home was a child problem - they saw it as a home problem.
But now they see the lack of learning and disruption as a child problem. That's what's so daft, first they say if he's different in two settings, he's choosing to be like that or you're handling it badly.
Now they say if he's different in two settings, school is the "true picture".

(and of course the "true child" is somewhere in there...)

TBH, they are both the "true child". Just the "true child" in different circumstances.

It's probably also worth thinking about how the environments have evolved with time. The school environment in Y2 - in terms of teaching, expectations, topics, work to be done etc etc - is very different from the environment in Y1, and even more different from that in Reception, so what you actually have is three separate and different school environments over time - and he is responding 'as himself' (ie as the "true child") in all of them. Add to that the ways in which peers change over that time, and the same child who was learning and a bit hyper (in comparison with peers) in R / Y1 can present very similarly 'as himself' but much more 'differently wrt expectations and peers' in Y2.

School's 'true picture', by the way, is exactly as true as your home 'true picture'. They are both your child, and both what is observed in those settings. One is not more valid than the other. One is not more of a 'problem' than the other - except, perhaps, for the 'collective' element of school, and the obvious issue of progression through the school into higher and higher expectations.

Both are 'true'. They are just different.

Apologies for multiple posts, but returning to "how much is people looking for things to confirm their biases. " from dreich

School may be developing a 'collective bias' - it they may increasingly see your DS as 'a child in the wrong setting', and be biassed towards observing things that reinforce this view. Equally, you and DS's other parent - assuming they have one, though your username suggests that you do - have biases about your DS as a child who 'is learning and just needs to catch up', and also biases about the school as 'a place that wants to get rid of him'. Unfortunately, this is part of human nature. Trying to be aware of one's own biases as well as those of others is a constant struggle!

When DS was a selective mute, for example, he was 'himself'. Just in a particular environment that caused that response. It wasn't 'false' that he was a selective mute. it wasn't 'false' that he had significant ASD traits. It's just that in another environment, he didn't display those aspects of 'himself' in the same way.

@cantkeepawayforever you have given excellent advice here.

The "true" child is both the child at school and the child at home. Outside expectations change from reception to year 2. For example having a not totally dry child in reception isn't out of the ordinary. However if the child still isn't dry by year 2, parents and teachers should be asking questions and investigating further.

You really need a multi agency assessment. Your private diagnosis is not worth much when it comes to EHCP evidence. Don't rule out ASD too, children can display different behaviours as they get older which mean additional diagnoses can be made. A good example is girls with ASD who are woefully under diagnosed because they mask for so long.