Current school and new schools contacting each other

[drspouse]

I have posted in SEN about this but this is a bit more of a general issue.

Our DS is in Y2 and his current school are saying they can't meet his needs. We're just waiting for the outcome of the EHCP panel but we are sure they are going to approve 1:1 (he currently has this) and then it's a case of what else we think he needs that we may need to appeal for.

Current school are pushing us to look at special schools so they can get rid. We think he could manage a smaller mainstream school (currently things like playground noise, noisy classrooms next to each other etc. are a struggle for him).

We rang one smaller mainstream school that was recommended to us by a carer who knows the local schools. Instead of ringing us back, the other school rang his current school (and didn't ring us back).

We are not sure if we can do anything about this. We wanted to contact smaller mainstream schools once we have his EHCP confirmed. But what can we do to prevent his current school from talking to them (and them from talking to his current school)?

Do we HAVE to tell other schools where he is currently? Are they allowed to talk to other schools about him?

Why don't you want the schools to talk?

Why do you think the school are "trying to get rid"?

Special school places are like hen's teeth. If the school is suggesting it, are you even considering visiting one?

You can read my other thread here, but we are looking at special schools except there are none for his needs even vaguely close to us (and the ones we are looking at don't all have a great reputation anyway).

The current school is telling us he will never cope in mainstream. We don't agree and if they tell the other schools this, the other schools won't even consider him.

They could equally be telling the special schools his needs are too severe, that he has a disability he doesn't have (they think he has ASD and MLD, based on their opinion only, not any diagnosis), any one of a number of things. It's not just the mainstream schools that we want to control information going to.

The current school think they have tried everything possible and are trying to wash their hands of him. Because they think they are a great school that can meet the needs of almost every child, they therefore conclude that he would never be able to cope in mainstream: in other words, if he can't cope in their amazing school, it must be him, not them.

We don't really see how they have the authorisation even to confirm he's on roll at their school, without us agreeing.

I just don't see the problem. Why is it a problem? If you decided to send your dc to a new school, you want the school to be better than current one, right? They need to know your dc's problem, and how they can or can't help your dc.

They do need to know our DC's problems.
They do not need to know our current school's version of our DC's problems, as they are incorrect.
And we need to talk to the school, not have our current school predict his future up to age 16 when he is currently only 7.

Would you like it if your child's current school told other schools something wrong about your child? Without their permission? Would you expect your school to tell anyone that rang up and said "I'm the HT of XYZ school" to give that person information about your child?

You really sound aggressive, which I think won't help in the long run.
I can see your point, you need to be strong for your child.
But if you sound so aggressive against a stranger on the internet, I really wonder what you would be like irl.
A lot of us can understand the frustration you experience. But your attitude may not help. It's not only you, who have struggle with meeting children's needs.Many of us suffer. And we all try to do the best, not just us parents, but the school your child goes.

If you are granted an EHCP, the panel may recommend special school or mainstream ( generally mainstream in Primary if your LA is anything like ours as specialist provision is few and far between!) If mainstream, and in our LA, the LA will ask your current school if they feel they can meet your child's needs. They may say no but will need a very good reason. If they do say no, the LA will send details to all local schools you feel might suit and ask the same question, can you meet this child's needs? The EHCP draft is sent to the local schools for information to enable a response to be given. But at the end of the day, the LA can pretty much insist!

There are a number of comments on this. Firstly if the two schools are near to each other then the headteachers probably know each other and will talk to each other - it can be a very lonely job being the headteacher of a school. Having said that I would not have thought it was appropriate for the headteacher of the school you were looking at to talk to current school headteacher until you had formally asked for a place at the school. They also cannot reject you if you decide to ask for a place and there is a place in the year cohort.
In terms of your current school, they clearly have decided that it would be preferable if your child went to a special school, which does not bode well for them getting the best possible education in the school.
If you get an EHC plan then it is for you to decide which would be the preferable school for your child to attend and to insist on the LA naming that school. That would guarantee you getting the place you want.

periodic have you read my other thread? Do you think I'm ringing up the other schools and saying YOU HAVE TO TAKE MY CHILD?
Do you actually think it's right and legal for my child's school to

spaniel they are not recommending a school, they have said they are not. I am not sure if the current school can then say "no, we can't meet his needs, he's out as of now". I really hope not as obviously we have nowhere else for him to go now.
I don't really want the EHCP to go to other schools in the form it's in at the moment (as without our notes it's totally incorrect) and also it seems much better for us to visit and talk to the school before them seeing any notes, doesn't it?

The EHCP draft is entirely wrong. This is usual. It has things like the EP putting in incorrect medical information, that we know is incorrect because the paediatrician has told us the opposite.
We have edited it heavily and we have said that school can share the draft with the PRU that's been advising school but they asked our permission, and we said yes but only with our notes. Can they just share it randomly without our permission with anyone else? How can they, legally, give information to anyone else about our child without us saying they can?

Hi drspouse - we chatted on your other thread

I actually think at this point, if you want to see the school, you should lie - say you are moving into the area and would like a visit.

If you like what you see - you need to write to the LA saying exactly why you think this school can meet your childs needs. If ask for this specific school the LA will consult with the school before naming it. This involves them having the EHCP and all the supporting documents. The heads will chat. You need to have your written statement in the consultation bundle to counter-act this chat.

Thanks admission in fact as our child is adopted we can get a place even if there isn't one, I believe (at an LEA school).
I didn't really think that the HT from our school would give info to a random person who says they are a HT but if they would do it to a local school without our permission, what's to stop them doing it to another school a long distance away that they don't know?

We would really vastly prefer to look at and talk to a school before asking the LEA to name it on an EHCP. But at the moment we have no confidence that our current school will not give out incorrect information to any school we talk to.

I actually think at this point, if you want to see the school, you should lie - say you are moving into the area and would like a visit.

Ha, I'm coming to that conclusion to be honest!

Oops my ranty sentence to periodic got cut off.
I'm just slightly astonished that anyone thinks it's OK for my child's current school to speak to another school without asking me first, or indeed for the other school to ring up the current school without asking me as well.

I'm a governor in a small primary school. We have had children move to a special school in the past few years. A previous poster is right they are like hen's teeth. One of our issues was getting the right school for the child.
The issues raised will still be an issue in all but the tiniest of primary schools. Pretty much all schools have classrooms next to each other. Small schools have smaller buildings so the noise issue can be a problem at things like lunch time and break time.

It is likely the schools will talk to each other even after you have applied to another school.

I'm happy for them to do that if I know they are doing that and if we've actually talked to the school ourselves WITH MY PERMISSION.

It's doing it without asking me or allowing us to look round that is totally inappropriate.

Small schools won't have nearly 400 pupils on the playground at the same time, and some don't have 30 in a classroom. Both of those would help immensely we feel.

How long ago did you phone the school you wanted to visit? It is possible they may still return your call.

Also - how do you know they phoned your son's current school?

But, in answer to your question, they can't force you to tell them where your child currently goes to school. You can simply say "I'd rather not say" if you get asked.

Is GDPR applicable here I wonder?

It was weeks ago, and our current school told us the other head had rung them.

I am surprised that one agency contacted another to discuss your dc in a non child protection issue without your consent.
Is there any way they could have thought that your consent was implied during your conversation?
On a separate issue I do wonder how enthusiastic any school would be about taking on a dc with additional needs in the current funding climate. Do you have any access to post adoption support to help with accessing another school place.

For us it was a good thing but I appreciate in your case it may not be.

After speaking to his previous school the attitude of ds’s new school was pretty much get him out of there we can’t believe what they are doing and in fact it’s probsbky illegal (they have just failed an inspection on safeguarding and equality of access including SEN mind!)

But until you have applied for a place or given permission I think it’s at the very least unethical.

I really feel for you.

OP headteachers talk. They have every right to. If the professionals think your child won't cope, I'd listen to them.

I've read many an EHCP where the parents and school sections are like chalk and cheese. Sometimes this is down to children being different at school and at home. However the things I have seen would astonish you. It's difficult for parents to imagine how their child is at school. Even watching your child in a classroom is an artificial situation because they know you are there.

I think the fault lies with the small school though as they are the agency asking for information without you having given consent. It wouldn't be unusual to give the school your dc are moving to consent to speak to the school they have been at so I doubt the school was surprised by the request for information.
What you don't know is if the current school checked the small school had consent to get the information.
If the current school really did want rid at all costs they could have downplayed the support your dc needs and it doesn't sound like they have done this.
Have you chased up the small school?

If the current school want him to leave, when talking to potential new school, surely they would underplay the severity in order to facilitate a move?

They do not need to know our current school's version of our DC's problems, as they are incorrect.

If your child spends 5 days a week at school, I'm fairly confident the school would be aware of what the problems are. Are you there at the school supervising full-time to see what is happening?