Current school and new schools contacting each other

[drspouse]

I have posted in SEN about this but this is a bit more of a general issue.

Our DS is in Y2 and his current school are saying they can't meet his needs. We're just waiting for the outcome of the EHCP panel but we are sure they are going to approve 1:1 (he currently has this) and then it's a case of what else we think he needs that we may need to appeal for.

Current school are pushing us to look at special schools so they can get rid. We think he could manage a smaller mainstream school (currently things like playground noise, noisy classrooms next to each other etc. are a struggle for him).

We rang one smaller mainstream school that was recommended to us by a carer who knows the local schools. Instead of ringing us back, the other school rang his current school (and didn't ring us back).

We are not sure if we can do anything about this. We wanted to contact smaller mainstream schools once we have his EHCP confirmed. But what can we do to prevent his current school from talking to them (and them from talking to his current school)?

Do we HAVE to tell other schools where he is currently? Are they allowed to talk to other schools about him?

It is a horrible situation to be in and as a parent of a 21 year old with SLD we have had our battles with the LEA. Your son is lucky to have you fighting his corner and trying to look after his best interests. My daughter attended a non maintained outside authority special school and now an out of authority specialist college and I have ruffled plenty of feathers in my time!

Please do read this thread, there is some excellent advice. I wish you all the very best.

One quick thing I thought I would mention is that reading through your posts I get the impression that you have quite a strong hierarchy of the value of professionals, I'm sorry if this isn't the case, sometimes it is hard to accurately pick up issues from brief writing.
But I just wanted to highlight that doctors actually often aren't the most informed people that you will come into contact with. All of the professionals will have their own area of expertise and sometimes it may simply be the people who spend the most time with your dc that can offer the best insights.
It can be important not to rank professional insights, skills and knowledge in a very medical model as important things can get lost.

Psychiatrists, being actual doctors, rule out other diagnoses. He's ruled out autism.

Just out of interest (and it may well not be relevant in your case, but still...) my son was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 5. He started medication and was diagnosed with ASD about a year later. He definitely has characteristics which match both. Enough to get a dx in both. (I am told that ADHD "symptoms" can sometimes mask ASD ones, and the ASD only becomes evident when you take the ADHD away.)

So, it isn't always possible to "rule out" one when you diagnose the other. The can and do coexist, and become more prominent in different situations.

That said, obviously I have no idea where your child fits in these terms.

They dont need your permission. Before you are accepted for a place at a new school, they will ALWAYS contact your current school for information such as SEN, child protection issues etc, etc. You cant stop this. It's a legal obligation for schools to pass on such information.

Oak, that's interesting - conversely, I have taught a child with an initial - and very clear - diagnosis of ASD from a oung age, who has subsequently been diagnosed and medicated for ADHD. The latter has made a HUGE difference to classroom life for them. Just because some symptoms could apply to both doesn't mean they have both, but equally, saying that the 'shared' symptoms always belong to the condition initially diagnosed might miss something which is of huge benefit to the child - in the case I know, effective medication that has enabled very successful progress at mainstream, with high academic performance previously masked by symptoms.

The psychiatrist doesn't think he has enough ASD-specific symptoms to warrant assessment. I am aware they can co-exist.
Lady why have they asked our permission to share other information if they don't need it?

(And they have not spoken to the special schools we are seeing. Presumably because they approve of us looking at them).

Will it matter if there are no relevant special needs schools in the local area? There wasn't for us either and my son gets transport to a far off school now due to his ehcp. I wasnt expecting it and it solved everything.

Will what matter? Not quite sure what you mean?

OP headteachers talk. They have every right to. If the professionals think your child won't cope, I'd listen to them

No no no. Recommending special schools is code for your child is going to let our SATS results down

If I had listened to the professionals Ds would have been put into a special school all because he had dyslexia.

I had similar conversations with ds’s school.

All they wanted was to get rid of him

They even got rid of their SEN dept.

School was inspected by OFSTED (possibly because of complaints from those like us who had children who were being forced out) a few months after we had left

School went from outstanding to in special measures. HT left. Most of the staff left.

It apparently is quite a good school now.

It's not because they "approve" of specialist schools that the current school hasn't spoken to the special schools you are seeing ( or not that you know!) They haven't spoken to the Special Schools because the Special schools haven't phoned yet. It was the prospective mainstream school that phoned the current school.

Why did they ask us for permission to pass on info to the PRU then?

No idea, you will need to ask!

What does the PRU think in terms of SS vs mainstream as the next step for your son? (I apologise if you have already mentioned this)

IME, the various elements of the 'non-mainstream' school provision are usually better at identifying children whose needs require any part of this provision that mainstream schools are - simply because for mainstream schools such children are in the minority, whereas in SS and PRUs they are the norm.

So if the PRU joins the mainstream school in recommending a Special School route, I would suggest that is a stronger indication that a SS is the best option than just the mainstream school alone. My experience of PRUs is that they do refer children back to mainstream - either the original school or a managed move - if they think it is the best option, and their judgement is usually pretty good. I have taught several children who have been to PRUs at different points in their education and have then gone into mainstream, and for all it was at least at that point the best option, though at least one went to a special school later in secondary.

As an answer to your question, you said in your second post that there weren't suitable sen schools nearby. You could consider sen schools (or mainstream) further afield as ehcps can specify that transport is provided. So why not consider schools further afield? I know that isn't the point of your thread, I was just pointing it out.

clank we are but so far they aren't great either, and he gets car sick going 4 miles.

cant they've not said, which seems reasonable as the specialist teacher has only met him once.

Why has there been PRU involvement? In my LA, PRU's are for pupils that have been permanently excluded from school and are 3/4 month placements to "rehabilitate" a child before moving on to a different school or ( in extreme cases of impossible behaviour) a placement paid for by the school in an attempt to avoid permanent exclusion where the intention is that the child returns to the same school after the 16 week placement in the hope that they have developed coping strategies to enable them to continue, neither of which would seem to fit your scenario.

Be very very careful smaller schools tend to have less funding and recourses. There’s no point moving to a smaller school if there isn’t the support there.

Your little ones triggers will be the same in a smaller school. If you have a school that is saying he won’t cope in mainstream then I advice you to believe them. There is a severe lack of places they will not be recommending a special school for fun.

Spaniel, that's my experience of PRUs as well. DrSpouse, is this a specialist teacher based in the PRU who does outreach and thus has been involved with your child? It doesn't sound like a 'normal' way that PRU's work, which as spaniel says is normally as a short-stay school.

Smaller schools can feel more overcrowded too. My son was much better off in a larger school where everything felt more spaced out.

is this a specialist teacher based in the PRU who does outreach and thus has been involved with your child?
That's right - it's how they work in our area. Very few pupils go to the PRU, he's never been excluded/refused to go to school etc.

Clank only one way to find out what a smaller school actually feels like, isn't there??? And it's not reading someone's description on Mumsnet.

Thanks for the clarification.

For us, PRUs (and other non-mainstream schools) are physical institutions that children attend, and advisory teachers - for all SEN - are based elsewhere.

Locally, IME 'Inreach' - ie SEN children and their support staff attending the non-mainstream setting for a one off or series of sessions - tends to be used rather than 'outreach' - ie SS staff visiting children in their own settings. Outreach / in school visits / support are provided by the advisory teachers, Ed Psychs, SaLT etc as a general rule. Different areas, different processes with the same intention, it seems.

Well why ask for advice then?

However a quick Google does show that e.g. in Cheshire it looks as if Outreach is used, whereas locally it is predominantly Inreach.